Tag: Faith

Outside the Camp – B
Christianity · Church · Community · Devotional · Faith · Holy Nation

Outside the Camp – B

consideringthebibletogether1 Comment

As mentioned in our first post (Outside the Camp – A), I had just finished a study in Matthew 8, of Jesus cleansing a leper (See Signs and Mighty Works of Jesus) and was in discussion with my favorite wifey. We considered the following two verses and started comparing lepers with believers.

Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. – Hebrews 13:13

He shall remain unclean as long as he has the disease. He is unclean. He shall live alone. His dwelling shall be outside the camp. – Leviticus 13:46

This post will continue with our thoughts and hopefully provide an opportunity for my readers to discuss additional parallels you may see between lepers and the New Testament believer.

Both communities consist of people who live under a death sentence.

The leper understood the disease would kill him and lived with this truth everyday, as their nerve endings quit working, organs began to shut down and their vision began to slip away.

The New Testament believer is also to understand his day to day experience of living under a death sentence, of carrying a cross and dying daily while in the Christian community. Our experiential feelings of love and belonging to this old world is to die as we grow closer to the One who delivered us.

Both communities have no one else they can trust in.

Both communities, as they experience separation from the greater society, naturally learn to trust in their own community and hopefully in the God who protects and guides them. For the typical modern church adherent, this need for trust within the community is fostered through relationships beyond the Sunday morning entertainment hour. Both communities, in reality have only One they can trust in for their lives.

Both communities experience suffering.

The leper would experience the suffering of exclusion and rejection, of the constant reminder of being out of the camp, away from family and friends. Much of the pain the leper would experience would not be associated with the physical realm, since they could not feel any pain as the nerves died. The suffering would be emotional and spiritual, since it appeared that their disease separated them from the God of the universe.

The New Testament believer also experiences suffering, but in our situation, the suffering may also include physical pain, along with the mental, emotional and spiritual suffering referred to above.

Both communities need to to be thankful for pain

The lack of pain for the leper sometimes caused greater damage to their body, as the leper would inadvertently allow further damage to their body by not recognizing the pain. A case in point is the common occurrence of a leper picking up a hot item, burning their skin and allowing this damage to continue.

The pain we normally experience is actually a gift, in that it guards us from unnecessary damage. The church is to be thankful for the pain of association with the Lord, as the early apostles gave witness. Sad to say, this avoidance of pain is actually encouraged in the modern church, under the teaching that we are to have our best lives now, that we as “children of the King” should only have blessing and good things in our lives. Pain and suffering is to be rejected by simply claiming healing or relief. Some of this teaching actually recommends we command God to remove pain.

Our thoughts on this connection between a leper and a believer are incomplete at best. As you read through this series on lepers and believers, and thoughts came to mind, please comment below. If you know someone this post may bless, send them a link so they may join us also.

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Outside the Camp – A
Christianity · Church · Community · Devotional · Faith · Holy Nation

Outside the Camp – A

consideringthebibletogether1 Comment

I recently finished a study in Matthew 8, of Jesus cleansing a leper (See Signs and Mighty Works of Jesus), and was chatting with my favorite wife during our Saturday morning tea time, rocking in our rocking chairs, and enjoying each other’s company.

We chatted about what I had found during my study. Lepers were considered rejects and outcasts, and were required to live “outside the camp”. As soon as that term was mentioned, I thought of Hebrews, where the apostle (or his representative) wrote.

Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. – Hebrews 13:13

As I studied the previously mentioned miracle, I recalled one other time this phrase occurred. It was in Leviticus 13, where Moses defined the lepers banishment from the camp. The leper was to be quarantined from those in the camp, and were forced to be “outside of the camp”

He shall remain unclean as long as he has the disease. He is unclean. He shall live alone. His dwelling shall be outside the camp. – Leviticus 13:46

Am I correct in thinking the author of Hebrews is actually equating Jesus with those who were outside of the camp, and exhorting believers to join Him outside the camp. He writes of the reproach the Lord Jesus endured, being outside the camp. To bear reproach is to experience disapproval, criticism and/or disappointment. The religious body of the nation of Israel surely poured reproach on the Lord Jesus in their dogged criticism of His teaching and His character. This reproach intensified until the ultimate rejection by the religious elite , resulting in the execution of God, the cruel crucifixion of Israel’s King.

As I have learned through my four decades of learning of the Word and the Author of life, “religion kills”. Only in the Lord Jesus do we find the source of life and His life is found through going to him, outside the camp.

This seed thought got us to thinking. Is not the church called out to be different (holy) and incur the reproach of the world? In what other ways does this description of a lepers’ colony help us understand the parallel existence of the New Testament church?

Let’s consider.

Both communities are rejected by the society they are associated with.

This parallel is somewhat obvious. Numbers 5:1-4 actually commands those in the camp to send lepers away, for they defile the camp.

In our New Testament experience, the tables flip somewhat, and “the camp”, defined in the Old Testament as being where God dwells (the nation of Israel), now is the very camp that has been rejected. To follow God, believers are to go to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. This is the very argument Hebrews brings to those first century believers associated with Judaism.

Both communities seek to be accepted by the society they are associated with.

As a comparison to the previous point, the leper most assuredly desired to be a part of the camp, to be accepted by the society he had been rejected by.

Sadly, it appears that during the church age, (if my understanding of church history is accurate), the established church has also sought acceptance of the world. This desire to be accepted seems evident in a couple ways in my understanding. Firstly, the established church sought acceptance by forcing morals upon the society, as in the medieval times, mixing spiritual authority with political force. Another way the church has sough to be accepted by society is to beg, or at least to mimic the society, in order to be accepted.

I am thankful that the church has had a remnant of believers walk away from the camp in order to maintain their allegiance to the One waiting for us outside the camp.

Both communities are small when compared to the society they are associated with.

Although highly contagious, the leper colony was to be isolated from the general populace and therefore be relatively small in relation to the camp. The infection could not spread if isolated.

So it is with the church, as it is a counter culture that has few that find it, that follow after Him and that openly confess Jesus as Lord.

It is challenging if we follow this metaphor of an infection a bit further and consider Christianity as an infectious disease that spreads rapidly if allowed.

Both communities are considered useless to the society they are associated with.

The leper colony was considered of no importance to the greater society, much like our modern society regards the church. Much of the disregard for the leper colony was due to their physical disfigurement and the ever present fear of infection. This disease resulted in a life of poverty, isolation and rejection. The greater society would not consider the leper colony of any importance.

Is not the church also considered a relic, a cast off that is not to be listened to. How often have you recently heard of the world’s desire to leave the church to history, forging a new society full of promise. The church is a “leper” in the world’s eyes. I suggest we embrace this attitude of the world towards us, in that we truly are a rejected people, and forgo any desire to join with them. Let us speak out as a conscience to a society that has no conscience, as ones who know the truth.

We may be considered useless to the world, but that isn’t our calling.

In closing, does it offend you that to be a believer is likened to a leper? Is there a social stigma with Christianity that is unacceptable to you, or that causes you a discomfort? Our life in Christ includes our dying to this old world and rejecting its opinion of the Master.

Our thoughts on the leper/believer connection will continue in our next post. As you read through this post, and thoughts came to mind, please comment below. If you know someone this post may bless, send them a link so they may join us also.

Thanks again for coming to visit. If you would like to receive daily posts from Considering the Bible, click on the “Follow” link below

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Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 19

consideringthebibletogether7 Comments

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

” to think a being created this one earth in the billions of other galaxies and made everything for the purpose of a couple billion Christians or 6.8 (and rising) humans is again arrogant …but to say something is not disproven does not make it any more valid than a faith based claim.”

“Arrogance” if proven untrue. You seem to assume your position is not “a faith based claim”. It is!

“Religion (sic) noun. Belief that is not proven that there is an imaginary being that created everything from nothing and only speaks to “special” people.”

Is this an actual definition or did you make this up? BTW, I am not defending religion. Get that out of your head! Institutional religion, in it’s varied forms, has committed more atrocities than any other institution I can think of! Jesus did not create a religion. As a matter of fact, His death doomed the very religion of the Jews.

”and lets face it stats are a great indicator whether something is possible or not,”

Whether something is possible is not a good indicator if something is true. Many things are “impossible”, and yet happen. Try to focus friend! You seem to ramble and use a “shotgun” approach. It is difficult to follow your train of thought sometimes.

Many of the issues you bring up are repeats of previous comments. It seems you are struggling, not with information/data/knowledge, but with your will. You WILL NOT allow anything to disturb your world. You understand that if there is a God, (and His name is Jesus) He has a claim on your life and this is unacceptable to you. But if there is a God, He will not go away!

As a matter of fact, He may just die for you! If that is true…

With this last discussion, we dropped communicating.

I can’t remember exactly why, but I hope my friend considers who the Lord is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.  Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 18

consideringthebibletogetherLeave a comment

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

“you do not understand this whole god thing right?“

No, I do not understand this whole God thing – that is true! He is God and I am not!

“do you know how it does things?”

No, I do not know how He does everything!

“how things are created? “

No, I do not know how things are created!

“no mind can systematically remember every detail without rethinking about a certain aspect of it and revamping or downgrading it.”

This is relatively true, but the issue with the gospels, as I mentioned previously, is the promise of Jesus to bring “all things to remembrance” for the apostles when they would need it.

With your rejection of Jesus as God Almighty, you simply live on a naturalistic plane.

You have great faith!

”What is hypothetical about being born in Norway or India?”

Being born in Norway or India is hypothetical to me, since I was born in Canada, and I can not speak for those born in India or Norway.

But I can speak about being born in a non-Christian country, in a non-Christian home, and the similarities are enough to answer your complaint, (IF you want it answered, but alas, I think you do not want answers!)

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 17

consideringthebibletogetherLeave a comment

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

“As far as statistics go atheism/non-theism is on the rise…why?”

I tried to find where atheism is growing and I am afraid that the growth of atheism is due to categorical confusion. It seems that terms such as atheism, agnostic, non-believers, non-religious and the such seem to be conveniently combined together, and each group benefits from the other groups population.

“To say Noah lived to beyond 500 years is ludicrous in any sane persons mind.”

The scriptures (Old Testament book of Genesis) states that Noah lived 950 yrs. I believe this is true, since Jesus quoted the book of Genesis as historical fact. (BTW, your “science based” determinations are founded on Charles Lyells uniformitarianism doctrine, which states that all natural processes that operate now, have always operated in like manner in the past. How can you make this assumption? Have you tested this belief? (How could you?) Can you claim this to be a fact?)

”Unlikely does not set an absolute but to say anything is absolute is just arrogant! “

Are you absolutely sure?

“unless it is proven with again systematic testing and repeatable testing such as dating methods which are proven by repeatable tests.”

It may be interesting for you to consider all the data. Recently, within the last decade or so, testing on Polonium Radio halos have displayed data (from repeatable testing procedures!) that may be of interest to you. I will let you do the research, if you are interested in additional data. (After all, you are a science based person, and data is the “coin” we need to make informed decisions with, right?)

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 16

consideringthebibletogetherLeave a comment

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

It has been a while since I have had a chance to get back to you. Going on vacation for a week just meant I had two weeks of work to do in one week! (Makes you wonder if a vacation is worth it! Haha)

On to my response to each of your earlier statements.

”woman was not made from a rib…but evolved through natural selection).”

Your assumption! You stated earlier that non repeatable events cannot be proven, therefore according to your own standards, you have to admit that the previous statement is an assumption that is based on your faith!

“how many people back then could read and write “

As a matter of fact, all young Jewish boys were trained in reading and writing in the first century.

“You actually believe people are lost (I have no clue in what context).“

You actually believe there is no God? This is an untenable position that you have admitted to previously, where I stated that to be an atheist, you have to prove a universal negative, and therefore be required to be omniscient (all- knowing), but then you would actually be God. (And then you would have to believe in yourself, right, which would be kind strange, eh?) BTW, I do believe that Jesus’ mission was to “save the lost” – It is what He said, but then you and I have different views on the historicity of Jesus life and death.

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 15

consideringthebibletogether1 Comment

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.
This post, like Part 10, is supplying my friends complete message, in order to give you context for my responses within the following posts.

Again validity- well-grounded (false) on principles or evidence (false), see criticism is based on the evidence…everything has laws that are followed (woman was not made from a rib…but evolved through natural selection).

They might be …a reiteration of something that happened but so are other books that are written and exaggerated…how many people back then could read and write and also be able to try and decipher other writings that were found and out it into context for their own purposes. This is probably why so many religions have many things in common…it’s not just Christianity but of course you have to destroy or convert anyone who does not believe in your god….you actually believe people are lost (i have no clue in what context).

Still standing? really? As far as statistics go atheism/non-theism is on the rise…why?maybe education…or lack of proof…or just the slightest glance at the past and wars and how much death and hatred have spawned from religious crusades.

Honestly as a science based person I will believe in anything as long as it follows some principles of reality and follow laws such as those that are upon us. To say Noah lived to beyond 500 years is ludicrous in any sane persons mind.

Unlikely does not set an absolute but to say anything is absolute is just arrogant! (such as god)! unless it is proven with again systematic testing and repeatable testing such as dating methods which are proven by repeatable tests. Those specific life spans that have been written down are not proven either correct? and they can not be disproved, but to side with something you have to be completely FAITHFUL in is also being “lost”, no?because you do not understand this whole god thing right? do you know how it does things? how things are created? except from some writings that were written down by hominids….or you can talk to people in todays time with repeatable observations and testing that basically shows the bible as great thought out stories…

The bible is made of stories- (an account of imaginary or real events told for entertainment or explanations) and explanations in those times were in short fall so what did people do? make an account of things that happened that would never happen again so they could be “special”. and they did believe in ghosts/spirits…angels or the ghost of “jebus”…seriously need i say more? When people got sick or died because of unknown reasons what happened? they needed answers much like some people need today…hence religion. How about a virgin birth? or just a whore or getting raped by psychologically unstable individuals? i don’t know personally but from what we know about genetics this is not even remotely even considered possible…well maybe a hermaphrodite….

As for the writing things down right away, why do you think police officers have to carry a pad around with them? because no mind can systematically remember every detail without rethinking about a certain aspect of it and revamping or downgrading it. Many studies have gone into this to show how ridiculous it is to take into account a victim in a court case…what has worked? DNA confirmation!

What is hypothetical about being born in Norway or India? people did/do all the time…things are born all the time…it is not hypothetical and the people who are introduced to certain social norms such as religion are usually taken in with the social acceptance theory. People change religions and are either atheist towards one or more gods depending on what social cult you follow. Richard Dawkins does a good job of showing how the secular way of thinking works by asking these questions because that is exactly what religious fanatics do as well and god’s creation (sic) is erroneous beyond anything, to think a being created this one earth in the billions of other galaxies and made everything for the purpose of a couple billion Christians or 6.8 (and rising) humans is again arrogant …but to say something is not disproved does not make it any more valid than a faith based claim.

What i found funny is that you used sic to exemplify you belief that Dr.Dawkins is erroneous…but everything about religion is erroneous, corrupt, pedophiliac,etc ….you take your pick. Religion (sic) noun. Belief that is not proven that there is an imaginary being that created everything from nothing and only speaks to “special” people.

Interesting to see that we are considered a pagan country but also doesn’t surprise me either because of immigration and how we seem to accommodate all religions so there isn’t one single extremely large religion…but as we are “americanized” i would also say that we are predominantly a Judaeo-Christian society. Real evidence is not really conceivable at younger ages since it takes blocks of learning to build up to learn how certain aspects of reality work (genetics, psychology, physics, etc) but your claim that you were not introduced to any religion and that you had time to learn the errors of different scriptures or different religions still holds no bar since it’s a N=1 which has absolutely no statistical strength…and lets face it stats are a great indicator whether something is possible or not, and yes i know my claim is empty as well but that does not make you any more correct than myself of your experiences and the effect it could possibly have on other people, the fact is that we are all human with slight variation and can copulate with one another demonstrating that we are genetically similar enough to be from the same genetic ancestry…we should all be critically thinking about how things are and why, this would give us a better understanding on why we have segregated our cultures so much to believe that some of us are good “in-group” or bad “out-group”.

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 14

consideringthebibletogether1 Comment

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

All in all the bible is not in it’s original writings (when ever that happened) and has been reiterated to suit the purposes of those using it…

Granted that the Bible is not in it’s original transcripts. I am thankful for that, since, if it was, people would idolize the message and forget the man Jesus.

A funny thing happened in the Arabian desert a few decades ago. A shepherd boy found a set of vials containing, what has come to be known as the dead sea scrolls. Comparison of these documents with known manuscripts of the book of Isaiah, (for example) show an incredibly accurate transmission rate. Have errors crept into the documents. None of any significance, and no major teaching is affected.

Concerning your question – A little history friend, if you don’t mind. I came into this world in a pagan country, in a pagan home, and where politics and the Bible were not allowed to be discussed.

As you may know, Canada has been declared a pagan nation, by the United Nations, for decades. I was kept from being introduced to any “god” as a “susceptible minded child”. I had the freedom to experience whatever my heart desired. And I experienced everything I could. After years of wandering, I came to realize that truth is what matters. Where it takes you is incidental. If you have the truth, that is what counts. And if you want to know the truth, it is available. I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

You have to understand that hypothetical questions are impossible to prove, unless you can reproduce it. I was not born in Norway or India. I know of folk who have been, and they have, after considering the evidence, bowed the knee to Jesus. Culture or national origin are not boundaries to acknowledging truth. Willful ignorance is the only barrier.

BTW I watched some of Richard Dawkins. I especially liked the time he turned the believers question around by asking the same question back. What genius (sic).

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 13

consideringthebibletogether1 Comment

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

Power of suggestion is related to the social interaction theory…someone is suggested/told something by someone else (crack head) … The bible, army regimes, gangs, cults or any social groups seeking to ban together traditionally high jack these terms meant for survival of close relatives …

This may be true, but the disciples were a small band of fearful men that hid from the authorities. They had no idea what they were experiencing and most, if not all the time, did not understand His message.

On the day of Pentecost, over 5000 people confessed their allegiance to Jesus as Lord. Peter preached and some of those who heard, realized the truth and accepted Him as Lord. Some did not, and immediately sought ways to frustrate the movement.

The Universal Church (I am not speaking of any institutional church that you may be familiar with, or have been in contact with!) is still alive and growing. Israel, as a religion, is gone (no temple!), Rome is gone. The Kingdom of God is flourishing.

There might have been no reported mass hallucinations…

Are you arguing from silence – Not very solid validation of a point.

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Atheism · Christianity

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 12

consideringthebibletogether285 Comments

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

Again for the not recording immediately you even did this experiment in boy scouts did you not? did the story in your case get skewed? … so the likeliness of that is highly unlikely still

Please reread my post earlier, where I tried to explain that it is NOT a multiplicity of oral story tellings prior to the writing of the gospels, but that eye-witnesses recorded the life and death of Jesus.

Probability is not a factor in this. Either have the intellectual integrity to state that these men (the apostles) were bold faced liars who duped entire nations (eventually), and in that lie, suffered poverty, persecution, distress and finally martyrdom (‘cept for John), or consider their record as having validity. These men were eye witnesses of the resurrection!

But then take into account the error of the “creation” …

Creationism is not the issue. You weren’t there – I wasn’t there. All those testing methods sound impressive. Not an issue concerning the Biblical record of Jesus’s life and death!

Jones town massacre….hmmm one person making many believe his story…sounds like religion or any other endeavor with false stories and no hard evidence doesn’t it? Or any other religion that is in practice or ever was practiced…

Religion is a trap! I fell into it, and I fear you may fall into it. I am NOT defending religion! Religion, in my humble opinion, has enslaved as many folk as any “vice” in this world.

I am NOT defending religion!

It is the historical Jesus, and Him only, that I want to focus on. He made claims, that if they are not true, should be considered the worst of lies. If the resurrection is true, and is, as the New Testament states, and is God’s “validation” of His claims, His claims need to be considered .

You have to be honest with facts, Friend. Propaganda, and smear tactics are not worthy of a fella who can think like you.

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.

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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.