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1 Corinthians 1:4-9
4 I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus,
5 that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge–
6 even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you–
7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
8 who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
In an earlier post, I mentioned that I would look at verses that seem to support the eternal security teaching and discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these passages.
Today’s passage is found in 1 Corinthians 1:8, but I would like to consider the passage from verses 4 through 9.
Is Paul seeking to instruct the believers in Corinth about eternal security? Or is he breaching upon their lack of stability?
Verse 8 clearly states that Jesus Christ shall confirm them unto the end, which must surely mean that once a person becomes a true believer, Jesus Christ is responsible to independently supply the believers security and deliver that person to God at their death. At least that is how I read it in the past and suppose it is the common understanding among those who lean toward the eternal security teaching.
But I do have a few concerns.
I would like to start with Paul’s description of the Corinthians confirmation in verse 6. The passage is telling me that the testimony of Christ was confirmed in the Corinthians. This is the very same word that Paul uses two verses later in verse 8.
So lets consider what is going on in these verses.

In verse 7, Paul states the purpose of the confirmation described in verse 6. The testimony of Christ – that is the witness/proof of Christ, was confirmed in the Corinthians via the gifts they received, the knowledge and utterance they experienced. The confirmation had a purpose. The confirmation had two participants, that is, God supplied the gifts, but the Corinthians exercised these gifts of knowledge and utterance. This is important to consider.
In verse 8, Jesus Christ is confirming the believers for the purpose of presenting them as blameless in the day of Christ.
Lets think about this.

Is confirmation a synonym (a word that means the same) for security?
As I read this passage in my earlier belief of eternal security, I would have to say yes! But the question begs to be answered honestly. Please remember that security has synonyms such as safety, defended, protected, sheltered, unharmed and shielded. Confirmation does not relate to these concepts.
But I am getting ahead of myself.

Is this confirmation something that is performed only in heaven? Or is this confirmation something that is being accomplished within the believer’s life?
Of course, if it is some type of mystical confirmation in heaven that is a completely independent activity of Jesus Christ alone without the participation of the believer, then adherents to the eternal security may have a valid argument with this verse.
But if the believer participates in this confirmation by obeying the direction (however imperfectly ) of the Master, following His teaching and seeking His direction, then somehow verse 8 includes a human component, a willingness and desire to conform to a blameless life, under the power and enabling of the Lord.
The greek word used in both verse six and eight has the the root meaning of “to be firm”.
When used of persons, it signifies someone who is trustworthy, someone who inspires confidence. In verse eight, the verb is in the future tense and active voice. The active voice represents Jesus Christ (the subject) as the doer or performer of the action.
Let me ask this simple question. As Jesus is confirming these believers to be blameless, would it not be obvious to all? Remember that to confirm someone is to produce someone who is firm, trustworthy, and one in whom you can trust and depend on.
Would not this fruit be evident in the believer’s life? A life that is becoming more like Jesus. He is certainly firm, trustworthy and One in whom we can place our confidence!
This is most interesting since many in the eternal security camp may speak of those who have no outward witness of Christ living in them as still being believers that are eternally secure and guaranteed entry into heaven, simply due to some statement of belief in the past.

Of course this is a difficult statement to say in these days of sensitivity, where we must not offend any. But I wonder what engenders God’s trust in a believer who breaks covenant without concern and who claims a vital relationship with Him in the midst of obvious sin and rebellion.
Consider.
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Does the Bible lend itself to a LITERAL reading?Our last post on this topic dealt with the question
“Is all the Bible to be read literally?”
We discussed the literal definition of the word “literal” – Oh how boring…., and genres of literature that passages within the Bible fall into. (somewhat interesting….)
This post, I would like to focus on the question
This is the heart of the message I am trying to communicate!
The intended (or true) meaning may be clouded or completely in error if taken literally.
Sometimes the message isn’t completely clear and the author will correct the misunderstanding. The following passages are offered to try to explain this concept.
Lets see if some of the messages Jesus gave in the Gospel of John were meant to be taken literally.
When Jesus said “Destroy this Temple”, the religious leaders understood the literal temple. Might this have been a mistake?
John 2:18-21
18 So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?”19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?”21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
When Nicodemus came to Jesus, Jesus told him he must be born again. Did Nicodemus take this literally?
John 3:3-9
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?”
When Jesus told the woman at the well about living water, and she asked Jesus about a bucket and the depth of the well, was she taking Jesus’ words too literally?
John 4:9-11
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “How is it that you, a Jew, ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”11 The woman said to him, “Sir, you have nothing to draw water with, and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water?
When the disciples came back from the town, after Jesus discussion with the woman at the well, they were confused about what Jesus had eaten. Maybe the disciples understood Him too literally?
John 4:31-35
31 Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.”32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.”33 So the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought him something to eat?”34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work.35 Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest.
How about when Jesus taught that His flesh was to be eaten and His blood was to be drank. Should that be taken literally?
John 6:48-52
48 I am the bread of life.49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
How about the “I am” statements in the Gospel? Shall literalness help us in our understanding of the person of Christ? Shall we consider the Messiah to be…
John 8:12
12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
John 9:5
5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
John 10:7
7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 15:1
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
John 15: 5
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Two final points come to mind at this time.
or
Those who were confused but hungry and teachable eventually got the message. Those who refused to consider any other understanding seemed to be associated with His enemies.
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Is all the Bible to be read literally?
First off, let me perfectly clear – I’m not saying we are not to read the Bible. Gosh golly nooooo. Read the Bible. Wrestle with it. Struggle with the Word. Argue with Him until it becomes clear. Honestly, if this post is competing for time that you could be reading the Bible, shut me down! Read the Bible instead. It will do your soul good.
Now that you have understood my stance on Bible reading, I suppose I am simply asking that when you read the Bible (remember you should read the Bible), are all portions of the Bible to be read in a strictly literal manner?

Is it true that the best method of understanding the Scriptures is to interpret the message literally?
I suppose that depends.
First off, lets make sure we understand what the term “literal” means.
I checked the definition found on http://www.dictionary.com, and found the following information.
Literal
adjective
noun
Like I said, reading the Bible literally depends on a number of factors. Let’s consider some of those factors.
The Genre of the Passage

Different genres demand different approaches to interpretation. Types of genres include historical narrative, law, wisdom, psalms, prophecy, apocalyptic, gospel or epistle
In a historical narrative passage, such as the taking of the census before the birth of the Messiah, or the crucifixion of the Savior, literalness serves us well.
In an apocalyptic genre, such as in Revelation, where the writer describes scorpions with stinging tails, it would be wise to consider the genre before committing to a literal interpretation of the passage.
As an aside, it is not a literal interpretation to say that the apostle is describing fighter helicopters. That is an effort to interpret John’s vision by defining what he described as an object that is familiar to 20th century western culture. A literal interpretation will be that the scorpions are scorpions.
A Figure of Speech
Is the writer/speaker using a figure of speech. Some types of “figures of speech” are below with examples from the Bible
Jesus used hyperbole often to teach those listening.
Consider Matthew 5:29
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Irony/Sarcasm– The use of words to convey the opposite of their literal meaning. A statement or situation where the meaning is contradicted by the appearance or presentation of the idea. When used to taunt or ridicule, it is called sarcasm.When the Pharisees went to trap Jesus in His Words, John records their saying with irony. The Pharisees didn’t mean it but the irony is is that He is true, teaches the way of God, etc.
Consider Matthew 22:15-16.
15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words.16 And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully, and you do not care about anyone’s opinion, for you are not swayed by appearances.

Or for a good example of sarcasm, lets take a look at Elijah
1 Kings 18:27
27 And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”
Jesus used this method in His teaching very often.
One example is in Luke 16:19-31
Those who live in poverty and destitution while being looked down upon by the rich and powerful are really the first in the Kingdom, while those who are rich and powerful while looking down on those who live in poverty are really last in the Kingdom.
The first will be last, and the last will be first.
Or consider
Matthew 22: 1-14
1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying,2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son,3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come.4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.’5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business,6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them.7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy.9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment.12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Just as those who are initially invited to the son’s wedding reject the invitation, those who are initially left out of the wedding plans are accepted as insiders at the wedding banquet. The insiders are out, and the outsiders are in. (If you desire to further study the paradoxical statements of Jesus, I would refer you to http://www.renewtheology.org/paperCFreeman1007.htm .)
A good example of this is the phrase “an evil eye”. In my past reading of the gospels, when I came across the phrase “an evil eye” I understood it to refer to an eye full of hate or maliciousness. After considering the historical use of the term in the Old Testament, I now understand the term to refer to a greedy covetous person. Without the historical use of the term being considered, I could not have come to that conclusion.
Recently another good example of an incorrect use of a cultural phrase occurred in my office, when I noticed my boss had gotten a haircut. I made mention that he had “gotten his ears lowered”, without thinking that that phrase may be cultural. As a Canadian in Texas, this sometimes happens! I had to explain that his ears weren’t actually lowered but that his hair was higher’d, (huh?) Canadians can be so hard to understand sometimes, eh?
Our next post will continue considering the Bible’s message, specifically the intention of the Biblical message.
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Continue in the FaithFollow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com
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A brother recently commented on an earlier post regarding this very passage, and I thought it would be wise to look into it. It is one of the passages that made me consider conditional security many many years ago.
Let’s remember that the conditional clause could be translated as If, as is the case we are faithless, he remains faithful
This portion of the passage, for both the OSAS follower and those of the other persuasion, may be used to justify thier position in the following way
An OSAS follower might argue…
If you are truly saved years back, but have slipped on slid away somewhat, God remains faithful. He cannot deny Himself and will keep the promise of takiing you home based on your initial faith.
Those other believers might argue…
This phrase is a description of the faithfulness of the Master to His own nature. If the servant abandons the Master, the Master will not change His nature to allow a denier to be in fellowship with Him.
No matter the perspective you take in looking at this final clause, it is comforting to know that He remains faithful, or true to His own nature.
Our faithlessness cannot affect His faithfulness. He is God and we are not. He is true to His own nature in the present, has been true to His own nature prior to creation, and will continue to be true to His own nature after the consummation of all things.
He is faithful.
How ’bout us?
Let us be faithful to the Only One who deserves our trust.
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A brother recently commented on an earlier post regarding this very passage, and I thought it would be wise to look into it. It is one of the passages that made me consider conditional security many many years ago.
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In our last post we considered Jeremiah’s message of the temple being the Jewish nations Place of Safety and Permanence instead of the Lord. Temple worship had become a replacement for proper living.
In this post we want to look Jeremiahs message to the people, describing the temple as their place of absolution.
Lets read the passage one more time.
Jeremiah 7:1-15
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD:
2 “Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all you men of Judah who enter these gates to worship the LORD.
3 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Amend your ways and your deeds, and I will let you dwell in this place.
4 Do not trust in these deceptive words: ‘This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.’
5 “For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another,
6 if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm,
7 then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.
8 “Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail.
9 Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known,
10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’–only to go on doing all these abominations?
11 Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, declares the LORD.
12 Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I made my name dwell at first, and see what I did to it because of the evil of my people Israel.
13 And now, because you have done all these things, declares the LORD, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,
14 therefore I will do to the house that is called by my name, and in which you trust, and to the place that I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.
15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I cast out all your kinsmen, all the offspring of Ephraim.
Consider

These worshipers were heading into the temple! Why complain about these folks? At least they were worshiping the true God, right? Jeremiah says to amend your ways. Worship without right living is hypocrisy and worthy of judgement. (And judgement was on its way!) The Temple of the Lord had become a stumbling block to the nation of Israel.
The second stumbling block for the Olkd Testament believers were that they viewed the temple as their:
Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’–only to go on doing all these abominations? Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes?
Those of Jeremiah’s day were not only seeing the temple as a place of permanence and safety, but also of forgiveness and absolution. Would I be going to far to think the temple was considered a refuge from judgment and responsibility before God.
Note that the temple is referred to as a “den of thieves”. A den of thieves is what thieves return to after they perform their evil deeds, in order to hide from justice, and be encouraged by other thieves to continue in their merciless acts and faithless lifestyles.
Jeremiah was defining these worshipers as thieves who were returning to their hide-out! That is crazy!!!
The temple had become a place of refuge for those who had performed “criminal” acts!
Who says the Bible is not relevant for today? The Word is relevant for today if we are willing to seek the truth. When we seek relevance through following the culture of our day, devote ourselves to some famous (or not so famous) Bible teacher/preacher or by appealing to false “safety nets” that are gimmicks, it seems to me that we “trust lying words”.
Don’t get me wrong – there are some Bible teacher/preachers that are good, but I fear most are simply using the sacred ministry as a worldly career. Fully reject those that are using the ministry to have a career, and with the few that may be left, we should constantly remind ourselves that those teacher/preachers are servants of God (1 Corinthians 4:1) and not our masters in the faith. (2 Corinthians 1:24)
Trusting in religious trappings or messages other than in God is the big message I get from Jeremiah! How many times have you chatted with a believer and you reference your denomination’s position, what your pastor/priest thinks, or the opinion of some famous Christian personality?
How often have you heard a believer tell you that the nation of Israel is Gods Chosen people today? What happened to the Church as the people of God? How can God have two chosen people?
Trusting in a future fulfillment of old covenant promises after the Jewish nation rejected the old covenant responsibilities (over and over again), I fear is is simply foolishness! It seems to me that the old covenant promises were conditional, and having rejected those promises by crucifying the Messiah, the promises of God were taken away from the nation of Israel, and given to a nation/people that would bring forth the fruits (Matthew 21:43).
Read the book of Hebrews to understand the urgency of the writer to convince the Hebrew people to leave behind the Old Covenant and grasp unto Jesus as the only hope. The nation of Israel had very few days left and the end was upon them. The Hebrew people would be dispersed and the theocracy would never be reestablished.
Do not seek something that isn’t promised!
Let us not trust in lying words!
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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.
A brother recently commented on an earlier post regarding this very passage, and I thought it would be wise to look into it. It is one of the passages that made me consider conditional security many many years ago.
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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A brother recently commented on an earlier post regarding this very passage, and I thought it would be wise to look into it. It is one of the passages that made me consider conditional security many many years ago.
Romans 6:3-5
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
2 Timothy 2:11 seems straightforward, but as I dwell on this phrase, I’m reminded that I have considered our death in the Messiah to be an academic truth. Something that I “believe” but not understand how to practice in my daily life. I have not considered it to be a truth that is “practical”.
I am not so sure about this way of thinking!
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In our last post, we considered Jeremiah’s demands upon the Jewish nation and the three weightier matters of the law that never changes, that God expects from His people.
Temple worship as a replacement for proper living is considered sin, and Jeremiah simply does not mince words in this passage.
In this post we want to look at the idol that the Jewish nation had erected in place of God, the lying words that they trusted in.
How could Jeremiah make such blatant claims as he does in this passage without riling up the very people who assumed they were the most righteous, those who attended “The Temple of the Lord”.
How is it that “The Temple of the Lord”, referred to in Jeremiah 7, is applicable to the modern-day Christian?
Lets read the passage one more time.
Jeremiah 7:1-15
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD:
2 “Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all you men of Judah who enter these gates to worship the LORD.
3 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Amend your ways and your deeds, and I will let you dwell in this place.
4 Do not trust in these deceptive words: ‘This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.’
5 “For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another,
6 if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm,
7 then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.
8 “Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail.
9 Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known,
10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’–only to go on doing all these abominations?
11 Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, declares the LORD.
12 Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I made my name dwell at first, and see what I did to it because of the evil of my people Israel.
13 And now, because you have done all these things, declares the LORD, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,
14 therefore I will do to the house that is called by my name, and in which you trust, and to the place that I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.
15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I cast out all your kinsmen, all the offspring of Ephraim.
Consider
These worshipers were heading into the temple! Why complain about these folks? At least they were worshiping the true God, right?
Jeremiah says to amend your ways. Worship without right living is hypocrisy and worthy of judgement. (And judgement was on its way!)

The Temple of the Lord had become a stumbling block to the nation of Israel.
DON’T TRUST LYING WORDS
What were the “lying words” the worshipers trusted? “The house of the Lord, the house of the Lord, the house of the Lord.”
The worshipers were trusting in lying words which were diverting their trust from the living God to the temple.
They viewed the temple as:
Consider Jeremiahs core message again
….if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.
A conditional promise. Do you see it? If if if if … then.
The Jewish nation had obligations to the covenant they entered into with the Lord at Mt Sinai. Jeremiah was calling the nation to its roots, its past, its obligations and responsibilities. He was not adding tasks or changing the contract. The people had walked away from the agreement, and the prophet was faithfully exhibiting the mercy and long-suffering of the Lord with His people. But the long suffering patience of the Lord was coming to a close and His prophet was warning His people, even as the Babylonians were on the way.
Yes, the Jews of Jeremiah’s day saw the Babylonians coming. It was obvious to all, but the religious Jews refused to acknowledge God’s judgement that was about to fall on their nation and considered the temple (how ironic!) to be their place of protection. How short of a memory we humans have. Obviously they had not learned about using God as a talisman or lucky charm. As a matter of fact, God reminds them of Shiloh later in the passage, and how the Philistines (those dirty dogs!) were able to defeat the Israelites and confiscate the very idol (the Ark of the Covenant) they were trusting in.

As an aside, consider how Jeremiah’s conditional promise with the Old Testament nation of Israel could apply to the New Testament nation of the Church.
If is a big word.
Believers today would do well if we considered our relationship with the Lord in the context of “if” when the Word calls for it.
It was surprising for me to realize the extent of that two letter word in the New Testament – Check it out in my ongoing series “Conditional Security”
Join me on our next blog when we find out the Jewish nation also viewed the temple as a place of absolution.
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In our last post, we considered the distraction of the Temple of the Lord.
Jeremiah 7 arrests me, makes me wonder and consider how “The Temple of the Lord” is applicable to the modern day Christian?
What did Jeremiah say? First off, let’s read the passage one more time.
Jeremiah 7:1-15
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD:
2 “Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all you men of Judah who enter these gates to worship the LORD.
3 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Amend your ways and your deeds, and I will let you dwell in this place.
4 Do not trust in these deceptive words: ‘This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.’
5 “For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another,
6 if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm,
7 then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.
8 “Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail.
9 Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known,
10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’–only to go on doing all these abominations?
11 Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, declares the LORD.
12 Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I made my name dwell at first, and see what I did to it because of the evil of my people Israel.
13 And now, because you have done all these things, declares the LORD, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,
14 therefore I will do to the house that is called by my name, and in which you trust, and to the place that I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.
15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I cast out all your kinsmen, all the offspring of Ephraim.
In our previous post, it became obvious that “The Temple of the Lord” supplied an opportunity for deceptive words to be spread about the Jewish nations security.
Jeremiah was calling the nation back to a personal responsibility to the Lord, instead of trusting in simply going to church – I mean going to temple.
Is this call to personal responsibility something new for these Jewish worshipers? Is Jeremiah demanding completely new requirements upon these folk? Were they ignorant of the Lords demands on their lives?
Consider
Leviticus 19 :18
You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
Lev 19 :34
You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 10 :18-19
He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing.
19 Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.
Mic 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
Zechariah 7:8-10
And the word of the LORD came to Zechariah, saying,
9 “Thus says the LORD of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another,
10 do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.”
This concern carried over into the New Testament, When the Lord Himself summarized the “weightier matters of the law”.
Matt 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

When I read this passage in Jeremiah, I can’t help but think of the Lord Jesus while He was on earth, talking to the religious men of His day. Of course, it is obvious He quoted Jeremiah in Matthew 21:13, where it is written “My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.” (Check out Jeremiah 7:11 for the connection!)
What I think is awesome is the connection of the thoughts of Jeremiah and the thoughts of Jesus. Three issues are raised in both of these men’s messages, and I’m a thinking they are as follows.
Judgement
It is obvious where Jesus refers to this thought, so compare it with Jeremiah when he states “thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbor”
Mercy
Again, the Lord’s reference to mercy is echoed in Jeremiahs statement “ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place”
Faith
Jesus finishes His classification of the weightier matters of the law by referring to faith. Is this Jeremiah concern, when he mentions “neither walk after other gods to your hurt”?
Consider
I am always surprised how applicable the Old Testaments message is for today’s Christian!
Consider the Temple of the Lord and how you relate to it.
Do you hear Jeremiahs message as a rebuke to your dependence on your physical church.
Or do you hear Jeremiahs message as a rebuke to your dependence on your spiritual church?
What? What are you talking about Carl? Hang on – let me explain.
I read in the New Testament where the church (the invisible spiritual church) is the body of Christ, a living organism that is comprised of all believers. If you see the church that way, Jeremiahs message is still so applicable.
When you see a brother or sister, how do you relate to them? Do you see them as a potential safety net in case trouble enters your life?
This “fault” in my faith came crashing in on me a while back.
I remember experiencing a very disappointing, troubling time in my life, and I reached out to a brother and sister for encouragement and counsel. I hoped they could assist in a specific way. They rejected my concerns.
My trust was not in the Lord – my trust was in “the believer”.
The Temple of the Lord is a tremendous blessing that believers can live in and with, but we need to trust in the Living God, and not “The Temple of the Lord”!
In our next post we will consider the misplaced trust Jeremiah was preaching about when he preached, “Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.”
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The Temple of the Lord
I was in Sunday School a few weeks back and we were studying Jeremiah 7. All during the class, something seemed “off”. It is usually a great class, but this particular time, the focus did not seem to be on the passage.
Why is Jeremiah harping about “The Temple of the Lord”, when it is obvious that the Jewish worshipers are attending faithfully?
How is “The Temple of the Lord”, referred to in Jeremiah 7, applicable to the modern day Christian?
What did Jeremiah say? First off, let’s read the passage.
Jeremiah 7:1-15
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD:
2 “Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all you men of Judah who enter these gates to worship the LORD.
3 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Amend your ways and your deeds, and I will let you dwell in this place.
4 Do not trust in these deceptive words: ‘This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.’
5 “For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another,
6 if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm,
7 then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever.
8 “Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail.
9 Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known,
10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’–only to go on doing all these abominations?
11 Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I myself have seen it, declares the LORD.
12 Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I made my name dwell at first, and see what I did to it because of the evil of my people Israel.
13 And now, because you have done all these things, declares the LORD, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer,
14 therefore I will do to the house that is called by my name, and in which you trust, and to the place that I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh.
15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I cast out all your kinsmen, all the offspring of Ephraim.
What is it that Jeremiah wants from these worshipers?
AMEND YOUR WAYS
Only if the nation of Israel amends their ways, will they be able to remain in the land. (see vs 7)
But Carl – The Temple of the Lord – that is the security, the promise, the TEMPLE. How could anything go wrong since the nation of Israel had the blessing and privilege granted to them to have the TEMPLE OF THE LORD.
Verse 8 speaks of deceptive words again, that the nation was trusting in. These words are…
THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD
Wait, the blessing and privilege of having the temple of the Lord in the nation of Israel is becoming a stumbling block to the nation of Israel. At the very least it was a massive distraction. You see, the Lord is not so concerned about edifices, buildings, construction, brick and mortar….
My wife’s favorite verse goes something like this
1 Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart.”
Although Samuel was referring to the stature and appearance of David’s first son, the principle applies here. As idolatrous humans, we seek to honor and worship that which we can see, feel and own.

The Temple fell into that category. And the Temple was to be abandoned, just like the Father abandoned Shiloh. He did it once before. His word is faithful, and looking back upon Jeremiahs time, it is easy for us to see the fulfillment his prophecy. The Babylonians swept in, and the nation was taken away to Babylon for 70 yrs.
Another prophet (and so much more) came on the scene, and recognized the nation of Israel’s spiritual condition. He spoke of abandoning the Temple.
They crucified Him.
The temple was sacked 40 yrs later. Think of it. The mercy of the Crucified One to allow for 40 years to pass, seeking repentance, prior to bringing final judgement on the nation.
I have more to say, but I would like to finish this post simply considering the mercy and kindness of the One who died for me.
He is good.
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It’s been a while since I have blogged on the topic of “Conditional Security”. Probably too long.
I admit, I struggle with the topic, and yearn for the days when I was convinced of the “Once Saved Always Saved” (OSAS) belief.
But I have considered what “those other believers” teach (as if there is such a group as “those other believers”!), and have found their argument to have some strength.
How do you handle other opinions and teachings within the church? Are they a threat? Do you automatically consider the source heretical?
Generally, when a believer teaches something your denomination avoids or condemns, do you assume your group is right, or do you test the teaching by studying the Word? Simply refusing it since you may not have been taught it seems shortsighted, and kinda arrogant.
I fell into that religious swamp for far too many years, and I thank God that He gave me the willingness to consider opposing teachings. I was in a religious ghetto, an echo chamber that was creating a spirit of deadness in me.
Don’t live in da ghetto brudder!
Consider some opposing view that good Christian men and women believe. Be challenged by it and do not avoid it. Search the Scripture to see if it be so.
Okay, enough of my rant. Back to conditional security.
This particular set of verses may seem to argue against conditional security, and if that be, that be good. We all need to be corrected by the Word, to be humble enough to admit that our knowledge base is tiny, somewhat full of hot air, and shot through with bias’s and wrong motivations.
If the Bible teaches something that we are to rely on, it needs to be clearly taught and without contradictions. The rest is potential fodder for destructive argument and distractive red herrings. But I digress (again).
Let’s consider the passage.
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Institution?

Organism?
Whats the difference?
Does it matter?
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build an institution called the church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
This misunderstanding held sway in my life for far too long. I mistakenly assumed that the status quo of a building and professional clergy were the correct interpretation of Jesus statement in Matthew 16:18.
Below are 20 points describing the differences between the institutional church and the Traditional Church, as described in the New Testament.
Each of these 20 points of difference are worthy of much more discussion, but these posts are intended to be brief and to the point – kinda like a bumper sticker!
| The Traditional Church | The New Testament Church |
| 1. The church meets in a special building | Churches met primarily in homes. (Acts 2:46-47; 5:42; 8:3; 12:12; 16:40; 20:7-8; 20:20; Rom.16:3-5; 1Cor.16:19; Col.4:15; Philemon 2; 2Jn.9-11) |
| 2. New converts are added to the existing church to make it bigger. | When the number of believers outgrew a home, a new church was formed. (Rom.16:3-5; 14-15; Acts 2:41-47) |
| 3. The Christian church is fractured into hundreds of different denominations. | There were no denominations; instead there was one church in each city, meeting in various homes. (Acts 8:1; 11:26; 18:22; Rom.16:1; 1Cor.1:2; Rev.2:1; Col.4:16; 1Thess.1:1; Rev.2:12; 3:7; 3:1; 2:8; 2:18) |
| 4. Pastors are trained in seminaries and sent out to serve in a congregation which has no real knowledge of his life or character. | Elders were local brothers who arose from within a local church where their life and character were known. (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5) |
| 5. The Sunday “worship service” is characterized by passivity among the laity with the Pastor or a select group of leaders doing nearly all the ministry. | Church meetings were participatory and interactive – every member had a function and contribution to make. (1Cor.12:4-27; 14:26; Eph.4:15-16; Rom.12:3-8; 1Pet.4:10-11; Heb.10:23-25; Rom.12:15; 1Cor.12:26) |
| 6. The Sunday morning worship service is characterized by a rigid and inflexible order of service. | Church meetings were characterized by informality, flexibility, and spontaneity. (Acts 20:7-12; 1Cor.14:26-31) |
| 7. The goal of the meeting is worship, listening to a sermon or evangelism. | The goal of the meeting was mutual edification. (1Cor.14:3,4,5,12,17,26; Eph.4:11-12,16; Heb.10:24-25) |
| 8. The church is led by the Pastor (or Senior Pastor in a large church). | The church was led by a plurality of co-equal Elders. (Acts 14:23; 20:28; Phil.1:1; 1Tim.4:17; Heb.10:17; James 5:14; 1Pet.5:1-2) |
| 9. The Senior Pastor is seen as set apart from and over the other pastors and elders. | The church was cared for by a team of pastors who were accountable to each other and the church; they were also known as elders or overseers. No one elder functioned as the head of the church. (Acts 20:28; Titus 1:5-7; 1Pet.5:1-2) |
| 10. The Pastor is paid a salary by the church. | Some elders might be financially supported, but they were usually bi-vocational (1Tim.5:17-18; Acts 20:33-35) |
| 11. The church is composed of both clergy and laity. | There was no clergy/laity distinction in the church – all the members comprised a fully functioning priesthood. (Heb.13:15-16; 1Pet.2:5,9; Rev.1:6) |
| 12. The Lord’s Supper is observed monthly, quarterly, or annually. | The Lord’s Supper was observed as often as the church regularly gathered and was the stated purpose for their meetings. (Acts 20:7; 1Cor.11:18-20,33) |
| 13. The Lord’s Supper is observed with a piece of cracker and a sip of juice. | The Lord’s Supper was observed as a full meal. (Acts 2:42,46; 1Cor.11:20-21; Jude 12) |
| 14. The Lord’s Supper is observed in a solemn funeral-like atmosphere as the worshippers reflect on Christ’s sufferings and death. The believer’s vertical relationship with Christ is emphasized. | The Lord’s Supper was observed with glad and sincere hearts as the church not only reflected on Christ’s death, but also on the future marriage supper of the Lamb which it depicted. The believer’s horizontal relationship with other believers was emphasized. (Acts 2:46; Luke 22:15-18,30; 1Cor.11:26; Acts 2:42; 1Cor.10:16) |
| 15. A new believer must go through membership or instructional classes before he can be baptized. | New believers were baptized as soon as it was humanly possible. (Acts 2:37-41; 8:12; 8:36-38; 9:17-18; 10:45-48; 16:31-34; 19:5) |
| 16. Baptism is performed by the clergy. | Baptism was performed by any Christian. (Jn.4:2; Acts 8:12; 8:36-39; 9:18; 22:16; 1Cor.1:17) |
| 17. The church must be present when someone is baptized.. | The church was not always present when someone was baptized. (Acts 8:12; 8:36-39; 16:31-34) |
| 18. Pastors deliver monologue sermons with no opportunity for questions or input from the congregation. | Various brothers taught the church, and allowed the congregation the opportunity to question them and/or add their own insights. (Acts 20:7; 1Cor.14:29-35) |
| 19. The church allocates the great majority of its finances for administrative overhead (salaries and building expenses). | The church gave primarily to relieve the poor and assist Christian workers, often beyond their means; they had very little if any administrative expenses (Acts 2:44-45; Gal.6:9-10; 1Jn.3:17; 1Tim.5:17-18; 1Cor.9:6-14; 2Cor.8:3; Phil.4:15-18; Lk.12:33-34; Eph.4:28; James 1:27) |
| 20. Believers are often urged to tithe; that is, they are taught to give a minimum of 10% to the church. | Believers gave voluntarily as God had blessed them and they had purposed in their heart; tithing was not carried over into the NT church. (2Cor.8:3-4; 9:7) |
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Remember that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church.
I don’t know if there is any guarantee for the institutional church. (I am afraid it might be skating on thin ice!!!)
Leave me a comment, lets start a discussion.
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I admit it it – I am Canadian by birth.

One of these social norms, that carried with it a certain nationalistic pride, was the Canadian armed forces . It was commonly understood that the Canadian armed forces were principally a
peace keeping force throughout troubled areas of our planet.Fast forward to 2001. I had moved to the USA and was living in a small town in the Texas panhandle. The towers had just fallen and the church I was attending had a special meeting to hear what the President had to say about this. The nation I was living in was going to hunt all terrorists down. The populace demanded peace and security. I felt the national pride oozing out of my friends and understood their desire for defending their nation.
But, as a Christian, I was confused. I had been brought up within a peace keeping society, and was now I lived in a nation that has been involved in warfare for 214 of 235 yrs of existence. (see bottom of post for further information)
Imagine my surprise when I read the Masters words (without the group dynamic of believers cheering on a social norm). His words are simple and incredibly challenging, not only for a believer in America, but also for a Canadian believer. You see, He didn’t say…
Blessed are the peacekeepers: for they shall be called the children of God. Nope – nice try but that’s not what He said.
Lets read what He said
Matthew 5:9
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Believers are to make peace. Being a peace keeper or at least being associated as one, was not His intent.
Some may say that His intent was only to direct the believer in their personal relationships, foster peace among friends, but this seems to unnecessarily compartmentalized His words, dontcha think?
Maybe He meant “Blessed are the peacemakers (cept for situations where the enemy has done something bad)”.
Duh, that don’t make no sense. It’s easy, even pleasurable to be at peace with those who at peace with you.
It is important to remember that as believers we have become followers of another King, and that any time a conflict between an earthly king and our Heavenly King becomes apparent, we must follow Him. When the nation we live in decides to pursue military action, as believers we have the privilege of praying for the safety of all those involved, and relieving those who have suffered due to the conflict.
Do we have the freedom to kill or hurt?
Matthew 5: 9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
As an aside, consider the list “American involvement in warfare” at the bottom of the post, and reflect on the effectiveness of using violence to engender enduring peace.
Of course, Jesus was speaking to His followers when He gave these instructions, and not to government power.
Government power ultimately used violence/war to shut Him up.
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American involvement in warfare
Who wants to know the future?
Come on – I see you out there, just famished for a bit of prophecy to understand.
And when do you want to know it?
Of course, I wanna know the future, and I wanna know it NOW!
But more importantly, WHY?
Doh, this is a bit hard to admit to.
Jesus helps us to get our head on straight in the following passage. Let’s read it together.
John 13:19
Now I tell you before it come, that, before it is come to pass, ye may know the future.
Ah, Carl – you have not been honest with us! Is that what the Word actually says? Or is it just what you understand it to say?
OK – you found me out. Lets look at the passage as it is written.
John 13:19
I am telling you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he.
What is wrong with me? Again, I understand the message of the Bible differently than what the Bible is trying to communicate to me.
A few days back I was listening to Mark 15. In that passage Joseph of Arimathaea took the body of Jesus, wrapped it in fine linen and placed it in a tomb. My thoughts turned to questions.
Joseph’s decision to take Jesus body and bury it fulfilled…
Isaiah 53:9.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
In this instance, the text seems to teach that the fulfillment of the prophecy was not Joseph’s objective. If so, this particular prophecy in Isaiah was not given to inform prior to its fulfillment, but after its fulfillment.
What????
Well – if that is generally true of prophecy, do we in the modern church look at Biblical prophecy incorrectly? Do we try to find out the future for our own purposes?
Granted, some information (ex. Olivet discourse) was given to the disciples prior to the destruction of Jerusalem, that they might escape the judgement of God on the nation of Israel. Even considering the Olivet discourse though, might the higher purpose of that prophecy be somewhat different from merely saving the disciples lives? After all, most of the apostles were going to be martyred, and persecution was going to fall on the church shortly after the fall of Jerusalem.
I suppose the general thought of trying to figger out the future is very popular among western Christians (of a certain stripe). I admit I used to delve into the future forecasting quite heavily, but am now considering the wisdom of this attitude. After all, each of the obvious prophetic fulfillments I spoke of failed to materialize – I was 100% wrong and in using the Scriptures to prove my point, only made a mockery of the Word – to my shame!)
A year or so back, a particular passage in John got me thinking. Actually, when I read it carefully, it created more questions than answers! Jesus is talking to His disciples, telling them of a particular future event and actually lets them know WHY He tells them.
John 13:19
Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
Did you catch the WHY when I supplied this verse above? Get ready – here it comes

Why did you supply that prophecy Jesus?
“…that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.”
The purpose was to direct the disciples faith to the person of Christ, not to instruct them of how to save their own bacon. Not for some temporal reason, but to direct the attention to the Messiah.
Consider
Lets consider Biblical prophecy to be a gift, not to inform us of future events, but direct our attention to the One who is faithful!
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Gotta Love Ourselves?
I have often heard in Sunday School classes and small fellowships, (heck – even in big churches!) that in order to love God we need to first love ourselves.
Sort of like when Jesus said in Matt 22:39 …
Thou shalt love thy neighbor after you love thyself.
What? Is that what the Lord meant?
No. As a matter of fact, it may be important to simply read what Matthew actually records from the Masters lips.
Matthew 22:39
And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Notice that the Lord made a command with an assumption embedded within it. The assumption is that we already love ourselves. The command does not say, “You shall love your neighbour after you have fully loved and honored and satisfied thyself.”
Lets read it once more
Matthew 22:39
And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
This seems so obvious, but I still find the occasional believer who has not read what Jesus said but merely listened to some teacher refer to this passage in propping up his humanistic message. The teaching goes somewhat like this.
In order to love your neighbor, God said that you have to love yourself first. Only a believer full of love for themselves can supply love for their neighbor.
Is it not obvious that when Jesus said to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, self love was assumed. This self love is the standard that Jesus was using to compare the amount of love that needs to be expressed to the neighbor.
To Love Ourselves is the Problem
As a matter of fact, it seems that self love is a problem.
2 Timothy 3:2-5
For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
Verse 2 includes self love but it sho isn’t in a list of admirable qualities. It is also interesting that the culmination of this type of life will produce an appearance of godliness, but alas, denying the power of godliness.
Finally, Paul says – Avoid such people.
Wow. Kinda harsh a bit, Paul? He didn’t say to teach them, or to pity them, or to correct them, or to love them ….
Avoid such people.
Jesus also had something else to say about self love. In Luke 9:23 he states that denying ones self is the way of discipleship, not to find some nebulous self love as the foundation of loving others.
Luke 9:23
And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
I don’t know about you, but when I have fallen into this thinking, I just can’t seem to love myself enough. I gotta coddle myself just one more time, one more pleasure, one more right exercised, one more time of me me me.
My problem is that I love myself more than my neighbor, more than Jesus. I hate it!
Lets read the Word for what it says, not what we want it to say!
Matthew 22:39
And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
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In our last post, we were considering the message Jesus was trying to communicate to his disciples in John 14. If you haven’t read it, this post will be of no benefit to you.
Go ahead and check the previous post out – I will wait for you.
WHAT JESUS PROBABLY DIDN’T MEAN – John 14:1-6 – Part 1
OK – so what did He intend for his disciples to understand?
We discussed the “Father’s house” concept and settled on a possibility.
Lets dig a bit more.
The ESV took a word that John uses only twice in his gospel. In the first instance it is translated as “rooms” The greek word is μονή, (mone).
Interestingly John is the only author that uses this word and he uses it twice in the same chapter. Of course the first instance is where “rooms” is used as the translation.
The second instance is found in verse 23.
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Can you guess where we will find the greek work μονή? In the verse above, μονή is translated as “our home”.
Let’s think about this. Using Vine’s Expository Dictionary as reference material (see below) we find that the word μονή, (mone) defines an abiding place, a dwelling place.
So we have the following considerations:
So what is the Master’s intended message for His people in this passage?
He is speaking of the fulfillment of God’s desire to abide with His people. He will prepare a place by way of His crucifixion and resurrection. He will come to take up residence in His church.
John 14:2
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
I am thinking that He is talking to His disciples in a manner that they can understand, referring to the temple (the Fathers House) as a place that has many abiding places. I don’t see in this portion any reference to who is abiding in these abiding places. Is it for the believer or for the Father? Could He be saying I am going to prepare a place for you (that place being the church, the body of Christ?) Consider verse 23, where John is speaking of the Father and the Son as abiding with His people.
John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
When he prepares this place (the Church, the Body of Christ), He will come again (Pentecost?) accepting/receiving the disciples unto Himself (in the Church, the Fathers House, the new Temple), with the purpose of having His people with Him in the same place (the Church, the Fathers House, the new Temple).
This kinda make sense!
John 14:4
And you know the way to where I am going.”
And you know the way to where I am going. He is going to prepare the body of Christ, and the disciples have been with Him for three years by now – of course they knew “the way” He IS the way. No wonder Jesus was surprised by the question posed by Thomas.
Do we sometimes insert later revelation into a text to support our ideas? Do we sometimes miss the tremendous blessing of the Body of Christ by hoping for something better? The rapture and end of the world is coming, the resurrection has been secured by the Savior. We need to enjoy His presence, and that of others in the Body now, and not simply look to the future as the beginning of (real) eternal life.
It is available now. Are you abiding in his room?
With these thoughts, I would ask you to read the passage with new eyes and consider His message for your life today.
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Is Jesus preparing a mansion for you?
I was in Sunday School a while back and we ventured into John 14 for some discussion. It was a good class but I was distracted with something I discovered a while back.
I suppose that is why I am writing this very post.
Whenever I read John 14:1-6, I previously understood it as follows. (italicized inserts my understanding)
John 14:1-6
“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
2 In heaven are many buildings. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to
heaven to build a castle/palace/house for you?3 And if I go and prepare a castle/palace/house for you, I will come again at the end of time and will take you to myself in the rapture, that where I am in heaven you may be also.
4 And you know the way to where I am going.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Is this the message the apostles understood from the Master? I am not so sure and I would like to try to explain why.
This message was given to the disciples after the last supper and prior to the arrest of the Messiah. At this point in the life of the Messiah, the apostles had not yet accepted the idea of the Master being taken from them in death. Jesus had informed them of His departure, but they did not want to accept it, they had no idea of a resurrection, and the rapture as we understand it was a completely foreign concept to them. (To insert the idea of a rapture into this passage seems to be a very fine example of eisegesis*.)
But Carl – he talks of mansions in heaven. Does He? Does he really? Consider the following.
Is Jesus referring to heaven when He speaks of His Fathers house? Are there any passages in the Old or New Testaments that are able to reinforce this teaching?
Consider all of the passages I found in the Bible that equate the Fathers house to heaven.
…tick tock tick tock…..
Dang – I couldn’t find any either.
But I did find passages that speak of the Fathers house as being the earthly temple of God. Try these passages out, eh?
John 2:16
And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father’s house a house of trade.”.
At no time have I ever considered that the thief’s had set up shop in heaven – It was in the temple that the thieves created a “house of merchandise”
Often in the Scriptures, the Lord speaks of dwelling with His people on earth. Currently I understand that His house is with the saints, the Body of Christ and we are the living stones, creating a holy temple for the Lord. These concepts and truths are easily recognized by those who have spent time in the Word.
But I still can’t find where the Fathers house is equated with heaven. Maybe – just maybe that wasn’t His message. Maybe heaven is what Jesus probably didn’t mean.
Well then – what did He intend for his disciples to understand?
Lets consider this question in our next post. Hope to see you then.
Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.
The lost will perish, but what does that mean?

To perish. What does it mean?
The greek word Apollumi is translated as
I find it interesting that Apollumi is the word Jesus used in John 3:16, describing the fate of those that believe not.
Previously when I have considered John 3:16, I have consistently understood it like this…
John 3 :16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not experience unending suffering, but have everlasting life.
Is that what the Master meant to communicate?

What if I understood Apollumi as synonymous with “experiencing unending suffering” in all the other instances it appears in the New Testament?
The following verses will have the greek term Apollumi replaced with “experience unending suffering”. As you may find out, some verses make no sense at all.
I will offer a few verses to make my point in some areas, but if the reader would like to refer to each verse using “Apollumi”, refer to the following document
Matt 9 :17
Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles experience unending suffering: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Luke 21 :18
But there shall not an hair of your head experience unending suffering.
John 6 :27
Labour not for the meat which experiences unending suffering, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
1 Peter 1 :7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that experiences unending suffering, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Matt 26 :52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall experience unending suffering with the sword.
Mark 4 :38
And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we experience unending suffering?
Luke 11 :51
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which experienced unending suffering between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Luke 15 :6
And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was experiencing unending suffering.
Luke 15 :24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was experiencing unending suffering, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luke 15 :32
It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was experiencing unending suffering, and is found.
Luke 17 :33
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall experience unending suffering; and whosoever shall experience unending suffering in his life shall preserve it.
John 12 :25
He that loveth his life shall experience unending suffering it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written, I will experience unending suffering the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Is this really saying what I think it is saying? Either it means eternal torment, which means a Christian may loose their faith/salvation or the word does not necessarily mean unending conscious torment and suffering.
Rom 14 :15
But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Don’t force unending suffering on him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
1 Corinthians 8 :11
And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother experience unending suffering, for whom Christ died?
2 Peter 3 :6
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, experienced unending suffering:
Hebrews 1 :11
They shall experience unending suffering; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
We know that He was raised from the dead so this can only be an error on the part of Caiaphas! (If only John hadn’t mentioned that this statement was a prophecy of the Messiahs sacrifice!!!)
John 18 :14
Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should experience unending suffering for the people.

It is not as clear cut as I had once assumed! Apollumi seems to have the meaning of destruction/perishing/lostness, but not necessarily eternal unending suffering. Of course, some verses may seem to make sense by bringing this meaning to the verse, like the following
Matt 18 :14
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should experience unending suffering.
One could import the idea of eternal suffering into this context, but it is not the only way to read it!
Luke 13 :5
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise experience unending suffering.
Of course if Jesus meant that the hearers would be destroyed by invading armies due to their sin, the idea of eternal suffering need not be imported.
Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to experience unending suffering both soul and body in hell.
If Jesus was referring to hades/the grave when he mentioned hell (check Strongs Concordance), the Father is able to destroy both body and soul after death. Either both body and soul endure eternal torment, or both body and soul are destroyed. It is interesting to note that the first phrase does not use destroy but kill. The body is not destroyed, but simply lifeless. (Soul and body are separated!) The destruction of both is up to the Father.

Some verses may be used to prop up the eternal torment teaching and may be viable interpretations. If I seem to be doubting the teaching of eternal torment, it is because I think I wanna figger out what the apostles want to teach me.
I cant learn from them if I keep correcting them.
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