As mentioned in the introduction, I have been been discussing the differences between Calvinism and Provisionalism with a fellow blogger. One particular response grabbed my attention and I am trying to understand his position, by referring to his proof texts and logic.
This is the first portion of his response (in red), along with the corresponding verses he referred to. I shall seek to comment on the verses and find his argument within the verses he has provided.
You are always using Human reasoning instead of scripture. God can change and has to change a person’s will to be saved. Ezekiel 36:26 John 3:3-8 Romans 3:10-12 Psalms 14:1-3 even though you think he can’t interfere with natural man’s will and someone will have to tell me how one person believes the Gospel the true gospel that is and another doesn’t. No freewill advocate can give me an answer. They ignore that question.
Psalm 14:1 – To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.
Psalm 14:2 – The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.
Psalm 14:3 – They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.
This passage is attributed to David, very likely during the persecution of King Saul, or the rebellion of his son Absalom. It is a dark day for David, no matter what, and the psalm expresses his utter despair, and his expectation of the Lord’s deliverance.
It is interesting that David does not say “everyone born says in his heart, “There is no God….” Nope – David has a specific type of person in mind, a fool. This passage my friend has supplied, describes a portion of humanity from David’s perspective. As we considered in our previous post, the Apostle Paul applies this passage to all, (calling us all fools!) yet even the universality of sin does not support my friends contention that a man cannot respond to the grace of God.
Verse 2 speaks of “the children of men”. This moves the reader from considering the category of fools, to that of all humanity.
And yet we have a number of instances in the Word of those who are “devout”.
A good example of the ability of a lost person to respond to God is found in Acts 10, where Peter is told to visit with a dirty Roman centurion. But wait a minute Carl. This fella Cornelius, in verse 2, is called “a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people and prayed continually to God.” He was obedient to the vision, (whereas Peter had to be shown his vision 3 times!)
What a terrific story, and upon reading it, it seems that Cornelius was seeking to hear and understand, and it was Peter that was a bit reluctant to obey. So backwards to what we should be like.
Nevertheless, Psalms 14 speaks of a person that is corrupt, does bad things, does not do good things, who turns aside, and has become corrupt. (By the way, if this fool has always been against God, what does it mean when he say he turned aside? That he has become corrupt? Could the one described have been seeking God, in some way previously, and has since “turned aside”, has “become corrupt”?)
This passage describes fools, (and the rest of us). It might not be comfortable to hear it, but hear it we must.
I do hope you will continue with me as I seek to understand the verses my friend supplies and if the verses he supplied support his argument of fatalism/determinism which he speaks of.
Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.
78 thoughts on “Calvin’s Concerns – Comment Response 4 – Psalm 14:1-3”
You don’t the ability to keep the law perfectly; so how are you getting to heaven?
I didn’t say just “the law,” I said that every commandment in the entire Bible from cover to cover, Old and New Testament, each one implies the existence of something that you think can’t possibly exist. If you can’t infer what it is, then enjoy contemplating the divine mystery that everyone else has figured out. All of the commandments and instructions in the Bible are linked by this idea which forms the very purpose for their existence. They all have something in common, every imperative clause written in scripture; and they all are based on the existence of a single characteristic of those made in the image of God. If you don’t believe in it, you have to believe that every one of those is a lie. Not just Torah, but all mandates in Scripture are linked by this concept, the very reason they have purpose. Without this thing, they have no purpose, and every precept in the Bible from beginning to end is void.
They demonstrate the perfection of God in Christ
No, they imply something ELSE you also believe doesn’t exist. Goodbye.
They drive us to Christ because of the knowledge of our inability to provide a righteousness to satisfy the perfect righteousness required by God to dwell with Him. A righteousness that only Jesus Christ can provide as our substitute through His atoning shed blood and imputed perfect righteousness
What don’t you get about that God turns the heart in whatever direction He desires Proverbs 21:1 There is nothing in reference to man in that scripture
God doesn’t set directions in a heart that has already directed itself in the direction he desires. He doesn’t puppeteer everything that everyone does without being the author of sin.
You’re putting out the same fallacy. Tell me how A causing B means that only A can cause B. Please, tell me. You haven’t explained anything; you’ve just reworded the same fallacy that I’ve refuted 5 times now. Keep making a fool of yourself. Find 3 more stories in the Bible which explicitly say that someone does something that God said that he would do, and then saying a different time that God did it. You can’t, because you’re wrong, the Jews know it, Christianity know is, and simple logic knows it. Keep wallowing in fatalism. Your idea of a god has decreed that you argue with me and lose, and he has foreordained the next time someone else exposes your willful and simplistic lack of discernment. Praise your god for it, since he foreknew because he elected instead of what the Bible says.
You should use scripture
Here’s some for you: look up every single commandment from God in the entire Bible. Each and every one of them implies something that you think never existed.
20 Because by works of law not will be justified all flesh before Him, for through law is full knowledge of sin. Psa. 143:2
That’s not the implication, whatever you think you’re responding to. I’m sorry if it went past you. If you can’t figure it out, you’re on your own.
Your quote below, Gordon, doesn’t make scriptural sense.
“God doesn’t set directions in a heart that has already directed itself in the direction he desires. He doesn’t puppeteer everything that everyone does without being the author of sin.”
God is the potter and we are the clay. Pharaoh said in Exodus He didn’t know YHWH.
And Pharaoh said, Who is Jehovah that I should listen to His voice to send away Israel? I do not know Jehovah, and I also will not send Israel away.
Pharaoh didn’t have everlasting life; since he didn’t know YHWH
John 17:3 John 3:3-8
1 ¶ As streams of waters, the king’s heart is in the hand of Jehovah; He extends it wherever He desires.
Jehovah has made all for His purpose,
yea, even the wicked one for the day of evil (things)
Romans 9:18- 23
18 So, then, to whom He wills, He shows mercy; but to whom He wills, He hardens.
19 You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
20 Nay, rather, O man, who are you, the one answering back to God? Shall the thing formed say to the One forming it, Why did You make me like this? Isa. 29:16
21 Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make one vessel to honor, and one to dishonor?
22 But if God, desiring to display wrath, and to make His power known, endured in much long-suffering vessels of wrath hav- ing been fitted out for destruction,
23 and that ( in order that) He make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy which He before prepared for glory,
Here is another angle. If God said He would harden Pharaoh’s heart then Pharaoh couldn’t do otherwise. There is no freedom for Pharaoh outside of God’s Will to harden him
If I say I hit the ball, are you going to say the ball hit itself? That is how I think you are looking
So, if God said He would harden Pharaoh’s heart, are you saying Pharaoh hardened his own heart?
Look at the post on the website they are all there
Links don’t publish in comments here, so if you were trying to direct me to John Piper or some other preacher who accuses God of sin, it didn’t come through. And I’m not going to pretend that any websites you peddle have any authority against the vast majority of all Judaism and Christianity.
I was just referencing some place that you can get a list of all the scriptures in Exodus that refer to God hardening Pharaoh
If God was the only one hardening Pharaoh, then it would never say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. It say that imply it seemed that way, but would never explicitly say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. But it does. Explicitly. Pharaoh could not hardenn his own heart if God already did so.
God saying that he would do something does not mean that he is the only one doing it. That’s simple mathematical logic that you keep denying because you know that even 3rd grade math refutes your lies which you keep repeating as though I hadn’t refuted you 3 times in a row.
Simple laws of logic disagree with you. All of the Jews who understand Hebrew disagree with your interpretation, and all non-heretical Christians through history disagree with you. You’re clinging to a fantasy that accuses God of authoring sin. Every time you push this lie, you are committing a blasphemy.
There would be absolutely no reason for God to say he was going to harden Pharaoh’s heart if Pharaoh was the cause of his own hardened heart.
Pharaoh had no freedom to do otherwise because God said He was the cause and was going to do it.
God directed or turned his heart to be hardened; Proverbs 21:1 therefore God hardened his heart. You keep using the word logic. Scripture is clear but you keep referring to other places.
How hard is it for you to read that Pharaoh hardened his own heart 3 times, and God did it the last 5? How did that bring you to the conclusion that God must’ve actually did it 10 times, that Pharaoh actually hardened his own heart 0 times, and it would be impossible for God not to do it 10 times? How did you get to that conclusion?
I already explained this and you keep trying to go over it again and again. Just accept that you don’t accept the answer and I do
God did it more than 5
DoubleAJWalk asks: Where did his[Cornelius] reverence for the True God come from? (Let me remind you that DoubleAJWalk walk is not confused as to where it comes from, he is trying to get you to answer because you refuse to be clear when it comes to your soteriology even though we all know you subscribe to “free-will” like your false teacher Leighton).
Carl responds: this is the question isn’t it?
My (Paul) response: WHY are you afraid to say, “Cornelius was reverent prior to Peters sermon because his free-will gave him the ability?” There is no question in your mind Carl, you truly believe with all your heart that Cornelius while dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1), while in the flesh hostile to God (Rom 8:7-8) was able to seek after the true God in an unregenerate state. You believe this even though the Doctrine of the apostles and the Scriptures say that “those who are in the flesh CANNOT please God.” You contradict Scripture and the Apostles doctrine because your view has Cornelius in the flesh seeking God and pleasing God. You also contradict scripture and the apostles doctrine when you say that Cornelius while dead in trespasses and sins, in the flesh hostile to God who cannot please God, was somehow seeking the true God while in an unregenerate state, because the Scripture says, “as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”” Romans 3:10-12 ESV. You have Cornelius “seeking the true God”, “being good and pleasing God”, and “not spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins but alive spiritually without the Holy Spirit” prior to Acts 10.
Carl, prior to regeneration by the Holy Spirit- You have Cornelius within himself pleasing the true God, reaching out to the true God by seeking Him and all this without being regenerated by the Holy Spirit. WOW! What heresy! What cartwheels and leaps you will do to believe in free Will. What negligence and twisting of the Scriptures you will do to believe in “free-will.” You are a full on full blown Pelagian.
Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ as beloved and preached by His Apostles. Repent of believing a false gospel and repent of believing in another Jesus!
You ask, “ So why was Peter sent to preach to him?”
Answer by DoubleAJWalk in the previous comment to which you either don’t understand (you do not have ears to hear) or you didn’t read it. Carl, you really do not understand the Bible or the Gospel – your presuppositions of “free-will” and “dispensationalsim” really distort everything you read in the Bible.
Here is what DoubleAJWalk says as to why Peter (the Jewish apostle) was sent to preach to Cornelius (the gentile regenerated believer)
Answer: Peter and Cornelius were obviously used as public figures of God demonstrating His power through the visions and the expression of those visions to Peter, the faithful circumcision and the Gentiles; and after coming together to show His power in the pouring out of His spirit upon the Gentiles speaking other languages; magnifying God, God consummated His public display with public baptism.
God now with His power demonstrated that the Gentiles now and always were part of His fold because God is not a respecter of persons and to never call common that which He has made clean
Peter and Cornelius were the main characters to bring that public powerful display to fruition.
Emphasis mine: as DoubleAJWalkhas stated Peter was sent to Cornelius in order to correct Peters thinking mainly because Peter thought that the Gospel was for the Jews only and not for the disgusting filthy Gentiles (this is exactly what the Pharisees believed). “God shows no partiality” for God is regenerating people from every tongue, tribe and nation- NOT ONLY JEWS. God is correcting Peter and he does this by “consummating” what was prophesied in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc. The proof to Peter and the rest of the Jews with him was in the “baptism of the Holy Spirit by speaking other languages as the Spirit was even poured out upon the Gentiles (Acts 10:45) .
Peter was never going to believe that God was fulfilling His prophesies of the OT and grafting in the Gentile nations, UNLESS of course God does something amazing – supernatural right before his eyes. And lo and behold – this is exactly what God did as He poured out His spirit like water upon Cornelius the Gentile right in front of Peter and the Jews. There was NO denying that Cornelius the Gentile was a true believer of the God of Abraham, and if there was any doubt left, this OT fulfillment would end it.
Acts 10 is NOT about Cornelius being somehow a devout man fearing God while in an unregenerated state no no no. This it is about Cornelius already being regenerated prior to Acts 10 and Peter seeing the prophecies of the OT coming to pass right before his very eyes in that God said He would regenerate and pour out His spirit upon the Gentiles.
This OT Hosea 2:23 passage has come to pass says the Apostle to the Gentiles (Paul in his letter to the Romans)
“even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’””
Romans 9:24-26 ESV
All glory to Jehovah!
“The Foolish has said in his heart No God”! (KJ3)…..
Other foolish ones have out of the heart and mind trusted in false gods
So the foolish one in Psalms 14:1 must be referring to the fact that he doesn’t believe in The True Biblical God which would include all other foolish ones believing in false Gods; The God that is in complete Sovereign control of His creation; who as creator causes all things; since He is God and not man. Remember Genesis 2 and Genesis 3
“ you will be like God” but God said “Dying you shall die”
Daniel 4:35 Job 23:13 Psalm 105:25 Isaiah 46:10 Proverbs 21:1
Says none seek after the true God so since The apostle included everyone in Romans 1-3 then the foolish one in Psalms 14:1 would be talking about all unregenerate persons that have not been by the sovereign Will of God taken from the family of Satan and given the rebirth by the Sovereign will of God John 3:3-8
The foolish has said in his heart must be referring to not trusting in The True Biblical God; who would be all persons from the unregenerate fallen descendants of Adam referred to as natural man in 1 Corinthians 2:14 The same persons in John 6:44 that must be drawn or dragged to the True Biblical God and Worked faith into the heart by God John 6:65
Referencing another one of your quotes
“It is interesting that David does not say “everyone born says in his heart, “There is no God….” Nope – “
That point is worthless because David would have been in biblical contradiction if he were to state that everyone born says in his heart “ No God” (KJ3)
John the Baptist was generated in the womb from above John 3:3,5,8 before he was born so John the Baptist would not have said that unregenerate statement “No God”
We are back to all unregenerate descendants of Adam will say The True Biblical God does not exist
So you are saying John the Baptist was an exception to the universality of sin?
Also you have not responded to the question of “the children of men” turning aside and becoming corrupt. Turning aside implies they were headed in the right direction, and becoming corrupt means they were less corrupt, even of some worth at one time.
Ps 14:3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
“The children of men” The Psalm is describing unregenerate people. If you think turning aside supports the thinking that spiritual death didn’t take place in the Garden of Eden, you are being a little short sighted. The Apostle Paul included all versions of natural men in Romans 1,2,3 which included everyone Jew and Gentile you already know and aren’t relating the Romans 1,2,3 and Psalms 14:3
You sound like some people were made with special inherent characteristics that will cause them and them only to recognize and reach for the true God when the Bible says natural man’s father is the Devil. All have went astray just describes the nature of man not that he started out good and went astray. God is the savior not man.
In no way did I mean that; John the Baptist was also a descendant of Adam; but God chose to regenerate John the Baptist in the womb. That is all I was meaning
Another quote of yours “ yet even the universality of sin does not support my friends contention that a man cannot respond to the grace of God.“
We have established that no one, not one, is seeking The True God.
I agree the universality of sin does not preclude the possibility to respond to God’s Grace, but his nature does eliminate the possibility of him responding to God’s Grace because he is spiritually incoherent and dead to the true God. He thinks God’s Sovereign Grace and Absolute control of His creation including the Cross of Christ is foolishness 1 Corinthians 2:14 1 Corinthians 1:18. His spirit is dead just as God said it would be in Genesis 2:17 and Ephesians 2:1-2 running from the true God loving darkness rather than light. There is no possibility of responding to God’s Grace; it is a gift unmerited and unsolicited until drawn, dragged and given. John 6:44, 65 John 6:37-44 Ephesians 2:8-10 Romans 3 Romans 4 It has to be by God’s sovereign Will to generate a dead one from above John 3:3,5,8 and it has to be The work of God John 6:29 working the belief into the heart for him to see the Grace of God. The natural man thinks he doesn’t need it . He died spiritually in the Garden and is now relying on his Inherited delusion of Free Will .
Excuse me – You have established that no one, not one is seeking the True God
Yes, no natural man seeks after The True God from his fallen spiritually dead nature; The same nature that spiritually died in the Garden of Eden to the true God as a descendant of Adam.
Adam and Eve went after other God’s and then hid from the true God; so does natural man. Remember the natural man does not accept the things of the true spirit; only the spirit of disobedience.
Natural man’s father is the devil. There are a lot of seekers in false gods which I tried to point out in the previous comments.
Once again, John 3:3-8 gives you the change that must take place by the Sovereign Will of God according to His will and purpose. In John the Baptist’s case the regeneration took place sometime in the womb after conception. Luke 1:41
“Your quote regarding Cornelius
“A good example of the ability of a lost person to respond to God is found in Acts 10”
Cornelius Acts 10
Acts 10:2 Acts 10:22
2 a devout one and fearing God, with all his household, both doing many merciful deeds to the people and praying to God through all.
22 And the ones said, Cornelius, a centurion, a just man and one fearing God, and being testified to by all the nation of the Jews, was divinely warned by a holy angel to call you to his house and to hear words from you.
Cornelius was devout and a fearing one of the true God and a just man.
These are signs of a regenerate man. No man is just before God without being imputed with the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ and given faith in the Gospel of Christ
What then? Do we excel? Not at all! For we before have charged both Jews and Greeks all to be under sin;
10 according as it is written, “There is not a righteous one, not even one!”
11 “There is not one understanding, there is not one seeking God.”
12 All turned aside; together they became worthless, not one is doing goodness, not so much as one!
18 there is no fear of God before their
The unregenerate have no fear of The True God before their eyes and they do not seek after the True God because spiritual things are foolishness to him; including the efficacious and effectual work of the Cross of Christ.
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and understood and he lacks the spirit to discern. 1 Corinthians 2:14
Prayers and merciful deeds went up to God for a memorial.
Truly I say to you, Wherever this gospel is proclaimed in all the world, also what she did will be spoken of for a memorial of her.
The same word for memorial was used in both the above verses. Were both regenerated from above?
Cornelius heard the Gospel either by Jesus himself or by His apostles/disciples. God sent a preacher for faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. His prayers were accepted because he was regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
We find Cornelius was in the spirit because those in the flesh cannot please God. Cornelius was regenerated prior to Acts 10 ……because
For the ones being according to flesh are mindful of the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit the things of the Spirit.
And the ones being in the flesh are not able to please God …..
God hates the offerings from the unregenerate natural man as we see in the verses below
“I hate, I despise your feast days; and I will not delight in your solemn assemblies. Though you offer Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not be pleased; nor will I regard the peace offerings of your fat animals. Take away from Me the noise of your songs; and I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments” (Amos 5:21-23). …. and the sacrifice of the wicked is a disgusting thing to Jehovah
The sacrifice of the wicked one is a disgusting thing to Jehovah, but the prayer
of the upright one is His delight
Cornelius heard the Gospel and believed prior to the Acts 10 account which would correlate to the statement from Peter in Acts 10:37 when Peter said at beginning of presenting the Gospel YOU KNOW
You know the thing that happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Ga- lilee after the baptism that John proclaimed,
38 Jesus the One from Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good, and healing all the ones having been oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did, both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem, whom they killed,
hanging Him on a tree.
40 God raised up this One the third day
and gave to Him to become visible;
41 not to all the people, but to witnesses, the ones having been before hand-picked by God, to us who ate and drank with Him
after His rising again from the dead.
42 And He commanded us to proclaim to the people and to witness solemnly that it is He Himself who has been marked out by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.
43 To this One all the Prophets witness, so that through His name everyone believing into Him will receive remission of sins.
The context seems to demonstrate the main reasons in focus that caused Peter and Cornelius to come together by the will of God was God wanted to demonstrate powerfully and publicly to Peter, the faithful circumcision and the Gentiles that He was not a respecter of persons and that Peter should not call common that which God has made clean. (Past tense)
God wanted to show His power publicly to the faithful circumcision and to all present that He is not a respecter of persons and the Gentiles were part of His regenerated people. God poured out His spirit and demonstrated His power and they spoke in different languages. Then Peter commanded them, the Gentiles, to be baptized which consummated the public confession of those which God had regenerated unto belief of the Gospel of Christ.
The meeting had nothing to do with the empty concept spawned in the Garden Of Eden of Cornelius’s or any Gentile’s Free Will or self induced faith; ( In Acts 11:18 it states God gave to the nations repentance unto life) but it was about making public that they were not to call common that which God makes clean , not by the will of man Romans 9:16 but by His mercy and that the Gentiles were always a part of the regenerated people whom He chooses to show mercy and save; who will make up all of Spiritual Israel, Jew and Gentile, His Children of Promise, His elect, that will be saved, Revelation 7:9
God is now fulfilling His prophecy in Isaiah.
He is pouring water out on the dry wilderness (the Gentiles nations) – to “give drink to my chosen people” Isaiah 43:20
The Gentiles were always part of the people of God, salvation wasn’t only poured out on the Gentiles at this time. However God is now doing something new because He has divorced rebellious Israel. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Gentiles was well prophesied in the OT. God is provoking both to jealousy so that the full number of His elect will be brought in. Broken off but can be grafted back in and Paul calls this a mystery
“So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.”
Romans 11:11-16 ESV
All the nations gather together, and the peoples assemble. Who among them can declare this, and show us the former things? Let them bring their witnesses to prove them right, and let them hear and say, It is true. “Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. The wild beasts will honor me, the jackals and the ostriches, for I give water in the wilderness, rivers in the desert, to give drink to my chosen people, the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”
Isaiah 43:9, 18-21 ESV
Peter and Cornelius were obviously used as public figures of God demonstrating His power through the visions and the expression of those visions to Peter, the faithful circumcision and the Gentiles; and after coming together to show His power in the pouring out of His spirit upon the Gentiles speaking other languages; magnifying God, God consummated His public display with public baptism.
God now with His power demonstrated that the Gentiles now and always were part of His fold because God is not a respecter of persons and to never call common that which He has made clean
Peter and Cornelius were the main characters to bring that public powerful display to fruition.
So Cornelius was saved before Peter preached to him?
How did Cornelius become a devout man and one that feared the totally Sovereign God who controls His creation and controls all things when the Bible says natural unregenerate man does not fear God? Where did his reverence for the True God come from?
That is the question isn’t it?
Let me answer your question since you won’t answer your question Plus I already answered it in the previous comment Yes Cornelius was regenerated by God prior to Peter’s arrival Please re-read the previous comment. It is explained and supported with scripture
So why was Peter sent to preach to him?
Cornelius was regenerated prior to Acts 10, which if you read my entire statement you would not have asked me this. It is clear that you are not reading my entire comment or you cannot understand. Which one is it Carl? The preaching by Peter was explained Please read again
I answered your question now answer mine
“How did Cornelius become devout and one fearing God?
God wanted to display His power and make known in a public way to Peter and the faithful circumcision
God wanted to display His power and make known in a public way to Peter and the faithful circumcision the grafting in of the Gentiles in front of the Jews Now please answer my question :
How did Cornelius become devout and one fearing God?
Your system of interpretation of scripture must have an answer, doesn’t it ? My system of interpretation does and I have given it to you? God regenerates whom He will mercy. God is not the author of confusion. If I couldn’t determine why one person fears the True God and not another, it would leave a void in my systematic understanding of scripture; but in reality scripture answers but some don’t like it
It is my opinion, but probably more than an opinion is that in your view, God would be a respecter of persons since He created in you the innate ability to differ yourself from another After all God is the creator and omniscient What about the poor fellow that God knowing created without this innate ability to recognize and reach out. Of course my view is God chooses unconditionally because natural man has no desire to come; so He can’t be accused of being a respecter of persons; they are all the same undone
You didn’t answer my question. Was Cornelius saved before Peter preached to him?
Yes He was regenerated unto belief of the Gospel He heard the Gospel before Peter otherwise he would have never been one fearing God
I have now told you how Cornelius became one that fears or revers The True God but you still have never answered How you think Cornelius came to be one fearing God
Please answer without using another question.
“obviously used as public figures of God demonstrating His power through the visions and the expression of those visions to Peter”
Why does God seek the glory of men? You say that God is not the author of confusion, while also insisting that God is constantly sending out a message that he deliberately makes most people unable to receive because God, being a respecter of persons, arbitrarily selects them to not receive it,
All we are doing is reading the text and the issue was what the text said and nothing more. YHWH hardened Pharoah’s heart.
That is what is obvious from the text
No. That’s a deceitful oversimplification of the text to deliver a false message.
The text tells you the message YHWH hardened Pharoah’s heart. Romans 9 answers why
That’s not all that the text says. You are leaving parts out because you don’t like what they say, because they refute your point.
You must read books backwards
I literally just told you, God said he would harden Pharaoh’s heart, and the plagues started. Then Pharaoh hardened his own heart, then his heart was hardened, and then God hardened his heart- as he predicted that he would. You leave the two parts in the middle out, because you know that is, and every Jewish commentary, and every pre-1530s Christian commentary on the story is against you. Because you’re wrong, and you can’t use Pharoah as an example of salvation-fate anyways, since the whole argument Paul made wasn’t about damnation at all. You want it to be, and you’ll defend it tooth and nail, because that’s how the psychology of Calvinism works.
21 And Jehovah said to Moses, As you go to return to Egypt, see all the wonders which I have put in your hand, and do them before Pharaoh. And I will make strong his heart, and he will not send the people away.
The above scripture does NOT say see all the wonders which I have put in your hand and do them before Pharaoh. And he will make strong his heart, and he will not send the people away.
Why do your commentaries miss the simple English or how does your using the word “Calvinism” change the simple grammatical structure of the sentence and how does one alter the meaning to the hardening to be Pharaoh’s work and not God’s work. And you accuse me of trying to ignore other scriptures in the middle. Those middle scriptures are the result of God’s turning the King’s heart to be hardened. If God decides for me to eat a hot dog at 1:00 tomorrow does the fact change that God caused the action if I decide to eat a hot dog tomorrow. Please keep in mind Exodus 4:21 came before all hardening of Pharaoh’s heart and inn that verse He tells Mose’s that He will do the hardening
“Simple English” what language was Exodus written in? You’re basing your whole philosophy of fatalism on this passage’s meaning and yet no one who knew the language agrees.
Nowhere does it say that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart before the fifth plague. It literally does not say that.
Not fatalism, Predestination, God cannot make or do anything outside His Omniscience. He is God.
I’m not objecting; but the objector in Romans 9 was objecting; he knew this when He said “ Why does He find fault?” For who can resist His will? Why did you make me like this?
It says in Exodus 4:21 “I will harden his heart” Jehovah said it and caused the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart and Pharaoh would never have softened his heart because it was God’s will to harden his heart.
You just don’t want to accept the beginning is in Exodus 4:21 and it begins with God not Pharaoh
Then why does it say that Pharaoh did it at all?
Did all what?
Why does the Bible say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart if he didn’t harden his heart?
I already explained this if God says He will harden his heart then any hardening of the heart that Pharaoh exercises, God is the cause of since God said, He, YHWH will harden his heart YHWH did not tell Mose’s when you confront Pharaoh he will harden his heart but the scripture says YHWH said I will harden his heart
Then why did it not just simply say that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart all 10 times? You’d think that God causing people to sin would be kinda important for the whole meaning of the Torah. You’re saying again, that A -> B, therefore -B implies -A. That’s mathematically wrong. It’s a logical fallacy. None of the Jewish commentators believe in that logic, and Paul himself does not imply that foresight is occasionalism.
There are roughly 19 references to some sort of hardening in Exodus, if I’m remembering correctly.
Yes, the scripture says Pharaoh hardened his heart in a minority few of the 19 scriptures.
Outwardly everyone seen Pharaoh hardening his heart. That is what is seen by observers. It is descriptive of what they were seeing; He was hardening his heart. In certain contexts of explaining the account it would be out of context to say Jehovah hardened his heart when the description of Pharaoh hardening his is necessary.
The Egyptians asked him what are you doing ? Egypt is perishing.
How do we know the cause of the hardening? Exodus 4:21, YHWH caused the hardening of the heart. If YHWH caused the hardening then we know for sure Pharaoh will harden his heart.
If YHWH said to Mose’s in Exodus 4:21 that Pharaoh will harden his heart when you confront him with the command to let the Israelites go, I would agree that Pharaoh was the cause of his hardened heart; but just because Pharaoh hardened his heart; that statement doesn’t give us the cause of his heart being hardened. We know the cause from reading Exodus 4:21, YHWH was the cause of his hardened heart.
We have scriptural support in Proverbs 21:1 that YHWH turns the heart in whatever direction He desires and we have evidence that He did this with Pharaoh.
Pharaoh did not have the freedom to not harden his heart
“In certain contexts of explaining the account it would be out of context to say Jehovah hardened his heart when the description of Pharaoh hardening his is necessary.”
There is absolutely no contextual need for the narrative to say that at all. Stop telling the entire Jewish and Christian people how to read their own literature.
When you are describing what visually is happening, there is no need to give the cause which was already given in the first scripture, Exodus 4:21. You are very stubborn and really want to hang on to free Will.
God turned his heart in the direction that He desired. In your frame of reference, you can’t allow that; but the scripture does allow it.
1. Find me 3 other scriptural witness of the Bible’s narrative lying to the audience for the sake of visual effect without explicitly saying that it was a perception of the subject.
2. I just told you God did not say WHEN he would do it, and never implied that he alone would do it. It only said that he would do it. And he did, starting with the 5th plague. That is clear and obvious no matter how much you deny it
3.Knowing the future and allowing things to happen efore interfering is not a frame of reference that forbids God from doing things about them.
4. I am not clinging to anything. Free will is the default paradigm of the whole Bible, and always has been. Stop telling Jews how to read Hebrew. It doesn’t work like that. Stop peddling your fatalist garbage. God is not the author of sin. Every time you insist that God first hardened Pharaoh’s heart, you are committing blasphemy.
There was no lying
If Pharaoh didn’t harden his heart, then Exod. 8:15, 8:32 and 9:34 are lies. Find 3 more stories that do this.
I already explained
Find three more examples, then, of the Bible misleading the reader for visual effect. Stop squirming and find them, or I’ll assume that you are just blubbering in your fallacy that I’ve refuted 4 times in a row.
They weren’t being misled. Pharaoh hardened his heart right in front of them
No, you say God did it, not Pharaoh. Find those scriptures, please.
I already did
Why does the text say that Pharaoh hardened his heart then, if God did all of it?