Calvinism, Doctrinal, Interpretation

Calvin’s Concerns – Comment Response 4 – Psalm 14:1-3

As mentioned in the introduction, I have been been discussing the differences between Calvinism and Provisionalism with a fellow blogger. One particular response grabbed my attention and I am trying to understand his position, by referring to his proof texts and logic.

This is the first portion of his response (in red), along with the corresponding verses he referred to. I shall seek to comment on the verses and find his argument within the verses he has provided.

Original Comment

You are always using Human reasoning instead of scripture. God can change and has to change a person’s will to be saved. Ezekiel 36:26 John 3:3-8 Romans 3:10-12 Psalms 14:1-3 even though you think he can’t interfere with natural man’s will and someone will have to tell me how one person believes the Gospel the true gospel that is and another doesn’t. No freewill advocate can give me an answer. They ignore that question.

Psalm 14:1-3

Psalm 14:1 – To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.
Psalm 14:2 – The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.
Psalm 14:3 – They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.

This passage is attributed to David, very likely during the persecution of King Saul, or the rebellion of his son Absalom. It is a dark day for David, no matter what, and the psalm expresses his utter despair, and his expectation of the Lord’s deliverance.

It is interesting that David does not say “everyone born says in his heart, “There is no God….” Nope – David has a specific type of person in mind, a fool. This passage my friend has supplied, describes a portion of humanity from David’s perspective. As we considered in our previous post, the Apostle Paul applies this passage to all, (calling us all fools!) yet even the universality of sin does not support my friends contention that a man cannot respond to the grace of God.

Verse 2 speaks of “the children of men”. This moves the reader from considering the category of fools, to that of all humanity.

And yet we have a number of instances in the Word of those who are “devout”.

A good example of the ability of a lost person to respond to God is found in Acts 10, where Peter is told to visit with a dirty Roman centurion. But wait a minute Carl. This fella Cornelius, in verse 2, is called “a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people and prayed continually to God.” He was obedient to the vision, (whereas Peter had to be shown his vision 3 times!)

What a terrific story, and upon reading it, it seems that Cornelius was seeking to hear and understand, and it was Peter that was a bit reluctant to obey. So backwards to what we should be like.

Nevertheless, Psalms 14 speaks of a person that is corrupt, does bad things, does not do good things, who turns aside, and has become corrupt. (By the way, if this fool has always been against God, what does it mean when he say he turned aside? That he has become corrupt? Could the one described have been seeking God, in some way previously, and has since “turned aside”, has “become corrupt”?)

This passage describes fools, (and the rest of us). It might not be comfortable to hear it, but hear it we must.

I do hope you will continue with me as I seek to understand the verses my friend supplies and if the verses he supplied support his argument of fatalism/determinism which he speaks of.



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27 thoughts on “Calvin’s Concerns – Comment Response 4 – Psalm 14:1-3

  1. Paul says:

    DoubleAJWalk asks: Where did his[Cornelius] reverence for the True God come from? (Let me remind you that DoubleAJWalk walk is not confused as to where it comes from, he is trying to get you to answer because you refuse to be clear when it comes to your soteriology even though we all know you subscribe to “free-will” like your false teacher Leighton).

    Carl responds: this is the question isn’t it?

    My (Paul) response: WHY are you afraid to say, “Cornelius was reverent prior to Peters sermon because his free-will gave him the ability?” There is no question in your mind Carl, you truly believe with all your heart that Cornelius while dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1), while in the flesh hostile to God (Rom 8:7-8) was able to seek after the true God in an unregenerate state. You believe this even though the Doctrine of the apostles and the Scriptures say that “those who are in the flesh CANNOT please God.” You contradict Scripture and the Apostles doctrine because your view has Cornelius in the flesh seeking God and pleasing God. You also contradict scripture and the apostles doctrine when you say that Cornelius while dead in trespasses and sins, in the flesh hostile to God who cannot please God, was somehow seeking the true God while in an unregenerate state, because the Scripture says, “as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”” Romans‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭ESV‬‬. You have Cornelius “seeking the true God”, “being good and pleasing God”, and “not spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins but alive spiritually without the Holy Spirit” prior to Acts 10.

    Carl, prior to regeneration by the Holy Spirit- You have Cornelius within himself pleasing the true God, reaching out to the true God by seeking Him and all this without being regenerated by the Holy Spirit. WOW! What heresy! What cartwheels and leaps you will do to believe in free Will. What negligence and twisting of the Scriptures you will do to believe in “free-will.” You are a full on full blown Pelagian.

    Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ as beloved and preached by His Apostles. Repent of believing a false gospel and repent of believing in another Jesus!

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  2. Paul says:

    Carl,

    You ask, “ So why was Peter sent to preach to him?”

    Answer by DoubleAJWalk in the previous comment to which you either don’t understand (you do not have ears to hear) or you didn’t read it. Carl, you really do not understand the Bible or the Gospel – your presuppositions of “free-will” and “dispensationalsim” really distort everything you read in the Bible.

    Here is what DoubleAJWalk says as to why Peter (the Jewish apostle) was sent to preach to Cornelius (the gentile regenerated believer)

    Answer: Peter and Cornelius were obviously used as public figures of God demonstrating His power through the visions and the expression of those visions to Peter, the faithful circumcision and the Gentiles; and after coming together to show His power in the pouring out of His spirit upon the Gentiles speaking other languages; magnifying God, God consummated His public display with public baptism.

    God now with His power demonstrated that the Gentiles now and always were part of His fold because God is not a respecter of persons and to never call common that which He has made clean

    Peter and Cornelius were the main characters to bring that public powerful display to fruition.

    Emphasis mine: as DoubleAJWalkhas stated Peter was sent to Cornelius in order to correct Peters thinking mainly because Peter thought that the Gospel was for the Jews only and not for the disgusting filthy Gentiles (this is exactly what the Pharisees believed). “God shows no partiality” for God is regenerating people from every tongue, tribe and nation- NOT ONLY JEWS. God is correcting Peter and he does this by “consummating” what was prophesied in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc. The proof to Peter and the rest of the Jews with him was in the “baptism of the Holy Spirit by speaking other languages as the Spirit was even poured out upon the Gentiles (Acts 10:45) .

    Peter was never going to believe that God was fulfilling His prophesies of the OT and grafting in the Gentile nations, UNLESS of course God does something amazing – supernatural right before his eyes. And lo and behold – this is exactly what God did as He poured out His spirit like water upon Cornelius the Gentile right in front of Peter and the Jews. There was NO denying that Cornelius the Gentile was a true believer of the God of Abraham, and if there was any doubt left, this OT fulfillment would end it.

    Acts 10 is NOT about Cornelius being somehow a devout man fearing God while in an unregenerated state no no no. This it is about Cornelius already being regenerated prior to Acts 10 and Peter seeing the prophecies of the OT coming to pass right before his very eyes in that God said He would regenerate and pour out His spirit upon the Gentiles.

    This OT Hosea 2:23 passage has come to pass says the Apostle to the Gentiles (Paul in his letter to the Romans)

    “even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’””
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:24-26‬ ‭ESV‬‬

    All glory to Jehovah!

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  3. “The Foolish has said in his heart No God”! (KJ3)…..
    Psalm14-1

    Other foolish ones have out of the heart and mind trusted in false gods

    So the foolish one in Psalms 14:1 must be referring to the fact that he doesn’t believe in The True Biblical God which would include all other foolish ones believing in false Gods; The God that is in complete Sovereign control of His creation; who as creator causes all things; since He is God and not man. Remember Genesis 2 and Genesis 3
    “ you will be like God” but God said “Dying you shall die”
    Daniel 4:35 Job 23:13 Psalm 105:25 Isaiah 46:10 Proverbs 21:1

    Romans 3:10-12
    Says none seek after the true God so since The apostle included everyone in Romans 1-3 then the foolish one in Psalms 14:1 would be talking about all unregenerate persons that have not been by the sovereign Will of God taken from the family of Satan and given the rebirth by the Sovereign will of God John 3:3-8

    The foolish has said in his heart must be referring to not trusting in The True Biblical God; who would be all persons from the unregenerate fallen descendants of Adam referred to as natural man in 1 Corinthians 2:14 The same persons in John 6:44 that must be drawn or dragged to the True Biblical God and Worked faith into the heart by God John 6:65

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    • Referencing another one of your quotes
      “It is interesting that David does not say “everyone born says in his heart, “There is no God….” Nope – “

      That point is worthless because David would have been in biblical contradiction if he were to state that everyone born says in his heart “ No God” (KJ3)

      John the Baptist was generated in the womb from above John 3:3,5,8 before he was born so John the Baptist would not have said that unregenerate statement “No God”
      We are back to all unregenerate descendants of Adam will say The True Biblical God does not exist

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      • Also you have not responded to the question of “the children of men” turning aside and becoming corrupt. Turning aside implies they were headed in the right direction, and becoming corrupt means they were less corrupt, even of some worth at one time.

        Ps 14:3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;

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      • “The children of men” The Psalm is describing unregenerate people. If you think turning aside supports the thinking that spiritual death didn’t take place in the Garden of Eden, you are being a little short sighted. The Apostle Paul included all versions of natural men in Romans 1,2,3 which included everyone Jew and Gentile you already know and aren’t relating the Romans 1,2,3 and Psalms 14:3
        You sound like some people were made with special inherent characteristics that will cause them and them only to recognize and reach for the true God when the Bible says natural man’s father is the Devil. All have went astray just describes the nature of man not that he started out good and went astray. God is the savior not man.

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      • In no way did I mean that; John the Baptist was also a descendant of Adam; but God chose to regenerate John the Baptist in the womb. That is all I was meaning

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    • Another quote of yours “ yet even the universality of sin does not support my friends contention that a man cannot respond to the grace of God.“

      We have established that no one, not one, is seeking The True God.

      I agree the universality of sin does not preclude the possibility to respond to God’s Grace, but his nature does eliminate the possibility of him responding to God’s Grace because he is spiritually incoherent and dead to the true God. He thinks God’s Sovereign Grace and Absolute control of His creation including the Cross of Christ is foolishness 1 Corinthians 2:14 1 Corinthians 1:18. His spirit is dead just as God said it would be in Genesis 2:17 and Ephesians 2:1-2 running from the true God loving darkness rather than light. There is no possibility of responding to God’s Grace; it is a gift unmerited and unsolicited until drawn, dragged and given. John 6:44, 65 John 6:37-44 Ephesians 2:8-10 Romans 3 Romans 4 It has to be by God’s sovereign Will to generate a dead one from above John 3:3,5,8 and it has to be The work of God John 6:29 working the belief into the heart for him to see the Grace of God. The natural man thinks he doesn’t need it . He died spiritually in the Garden and is now relying on his Inherited delusion of Free Will .

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      • Yes, no natural man seeks after The True God from his fallen spiritually dead nature; The same nature that spiritually died in the Garden of Eden to the true God as a descendant of Adam.

        Adam and Eve went after other God’s and then hid from the true God; so does natural man. Remember the natural man does not accept the things of the true spirit; only the spirit of disobedience.

        Natural man’s father is the devil. There are a lot of seekers in false gods which I tried to point out in the previous comments.

        Once again, John 3:3-8 gives you the change that must take place by the Sovereign Will of God according to His will and purpose. In John the Baptist’s case the regeneration took place sometime in the womb after conception. Luke 1:41

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      • “Your quote regarding Cornelius
        Acts 10
        “A good example of the ability of a lost person to respond to God is found in Acts 10”

        Cornelius Acts 10
        Acts 10:2 Acts 10:22
        2 a devout one and fearing God, with all his household, both doing many merciful deeds to the people and praying to God through all.

        Acts 10:22
        22 And the ones said, Cornelius, a centurion, a just man and one fearing God, and being testified to by all the nation of the Jews, was divinely warned by a holy angel to call you to his house and to hear words from you.

        Comment
        Cornelius was devout and a fearing one of the true God and a just man.
        These are signs of a regenerate man. No man is just before God without being imputed with the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ and given faith in the Gospel of Christ

        Romans 3:9
        What then? Do we excel? Not at all! For we before have charged both Jews and Greeks all to be under sin;

        10 according as it is written, “There is not a righteous one, not even one!”

        11 “There is not one understanding, there is not one seeking God.”

        12 All turned aside; together they became worthless, not one is doing goodness, not so much as one!

        18 there is no fear of God before their
        eyes.”

        Comment
        The unregenerate have no fear of The True God before their eyes and they do not seek after the True God because spiritual things are foolishness to him; including the efficacious and effectual work of the Cross of Christ.

        Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and understood and he lacks the spirit to discern. 1 Corinthians 2:14

        Acts 10:4
        Prayers and merciful deeds went up to God for a memorial.

        Matthew 26:13
        Truly I say to you, Wherever this gospel is proclaimed in all the world, also what she did will be spoken of for a memorial of her.

        Comment
        The same word for memorial was used in both the above verses. Were both regenerated from above?

        Cornelius heard the Gospel either by Jesus himself or by His apostles/disciples. God sent a preacher for faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. His prayers were accepted because he was regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

        We find Cornelius was in the spirit because those in the flesh cannot please God. Cornelius was regenerated prior to Acts 10 ……because

        Romans 7:5
        For the ones being according to flesh are mindful of the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit the things of the Spirit.

        Romans 8:5
        And the ones being in the flesh are not able to please God …..

        Comment
        God hates the offerings from the unregenerate natural man as we see in the verses below

        Amos 5:21-23
        “I hate, I despise your feast days; and I will not delight in your solemn assemblies. Though you offer Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not be pleased; nor will I regard the peace offerings of your fat animals. Take away from Me the noise of your songs; and I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments” (Amos 5:21-23). …. and the sacrifice of the wicked is a disgusting thing to Jehovah

        Proverbs 15:8

        The sacrifice of the wicked one is a disgusting thing to Jehovah, but the prayer
        of the upright one is His delight

        Cornelius heard the Gospel and believed prior to the Acts 10 account which would correlate to the statement from Peter in Acts 10:37 when Peter said at beginning of presenting the Gospel YOU KNOW

        Acts 10:37
        You know the thing that happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Ga- lilee after the baptism that John proclaimed,

        38 Jesus the One from Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good, and healing all the ones having been oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

        39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did, both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem, whom they killed,
        hanging Him on a tree.

        40 God raised up this One the third day
        and gave to Him to become visible;

        41 not to all the people, but to witnesses, the ones having been before hand-picked by God, to us who ate and drank with Him
        after His rising again from the dead.

        42 And He commanded us to proclaim to the people and to witness solemnly that it is He Himself who has been marked out by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.

        43 To this One all the Prophets witness, so that through His name everyone believing into Him will receive remission of sins.

        The context seems to demonstrate the main reasons in focus that caused Peter and Cornelius to come together by the will of God was God wanted to demonstrate powerfully and publicly to Peter, the faithful circumcision and the Gentiles that He was not a respecter of persons and that Peter should not call common that which God has made clean. (Past tense)

        God wanted to show His power publicly to the faithful circumcision and to all present that He is not a respecter of persons and the Gentiles were part of His regenerated people. God poured out His spirit and demonstrated His power and they spoke in different languages. Then Peter commanded them, the Gentiles, to be baptized which consummated the public confession of those which God had regenerated unto belief of the Gospel of Christ.

        The meeting had nothing to do with the empty concept spawned in the Garden Of Eden of Cornelius’s or any Gentile’s Free Will or self induced faith; ( In Acts 11:18 it states God gave to the nations repentance unto life) but it was about making public that they were not to call common that which God makes clean , not by the will of man Romans 9:16 but by His mercy and that the Gentiles were always a part of the regenerated people whom He chooses to show mercy and save; who will make up all of Spiritual Israel, Jew and Gentile, His Children of Promise, His elect, that will be saved, Revelation 7:9
        God is now fulfilling His prophecy in Isaiah.
        He is pouring water out on the dry wilderness (the Gentiles nations) – to “give drink to my chosen people” Isaiah 43:20

        The Gentiles were always part of the people of God, salvation wasn’t only poured out on the Gentiles at this time. However God is now doing something new because He has divorced rebellious Israel. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Gentiles was well prophesied in the OT. God is provoking both to jealousy so that the full number of His elect will be brought in. Broken off but can be grafted back in and Paul calls this a mystery

        “So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.”
        ‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:11-16‬ ‭ESV‬

        All the nations gather together, and the peoples assemble. Who among them can declare this, and show us the former things? Let them bring their witnesses to prove them right, and let them hear and say, It is true. “Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. The wild beasts will honor me, the jackals and the ostriches, for I give water in the wilderness, rivers in the desert, to give drink to my chosen people, the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”
        ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:9, 18-21‬ ‭ESV‬‬

        Peter and Cornelius were obviously used as public figures of God demonstrating His power through the visions and the expression of those visions to Peter, the faithful circumcision and the Gentiles; and after coming together to show His power in the pouring out of His spirit upon the Gentiles speaking other languages; magnifying God, God consummated His public display with public baptism.

        God now with His power demonstrated that the Gentiles now and always were part of His fold because God is not a respecter of persons and to never call common that which He has made clean

        Peter and Cornelius were the main characters to bring that public powerful display to fruition.

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      • How did Cornelius become a devout man and one that feared the totally Sovereign God who controls His creation and controls all things when the Bible says natural unregenerate man does not fear God? Where did his reverence for the True God come from?

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      • Let me answer your question since you won’t answer your question Plus I already answered it in the previous comment Yes Cornelius was regenerated by God prior to Peter’s arrival Please re-read the previous comment. It is explained and supported with scripture

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      • Cornelius was regenerated prior to Acts 10, which if you read my entire statement you would not have asked me this. It is clear that you are not reading my entire comment or you cannot understand. Which one is it Carl? The preaching by Peter was explained Please read again

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      • God wanted to display His power and make known in a public way to Peter and the faithful circumcision the grafting in of the Gentiles in front of the Jews Now please answer my question :

        How did Cornelius become devout and one fearing God?

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      • Your system of interpretation of scripture must have an answer, doesn’t it ? My system of interpretation does and I have given it to you? God regenerates whom He will mercy. God is not the author of confusion. If I couldn’t determine why one person fears the True God and not another, it would leave a void in my systematic understanding of scripture; but in reality scripture answers but some don’t like it

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      • It is my opinion, but probably more than an opinion is that in your view, God would be a respecter of persons since He created in you the innate ability to differ yourself from another After all God is the creator and omniscient What about the poor fellow that God knowing created without this innate ability to recognize and reach out. Of course my view is God chooses unconditionally because natural man has no desire to come; so He can’t be accused of being a respecter of persons; they are all the same undone

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      • I have now told you how Cornelius became one that fears or revers The True God but you still have never answered How you think Cornelius came to be one fearing God

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