Discussions with an Atheist – Part 13

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

Power of suggestion is related to the social interaction theory…someone is suggested/told something by someone else (crack head) … The bible, army regimes, gangs, cults or any social groups seeking to ban together traditionally high jack these terms meant for survival of close relatives …

This may be true, but the disciples were a small band of fearful men that hid from the authorities. They had no idea what they were experiencing and most, if not all the time, did not understand His message.

On the day of Pentecost, over 5000 people confessed their allegiance to Jesus as Lord. Peter preached and some of those who heard, realized the truth and accepted Him as Lord. Some did not, and immediately sought ways to frustrate the movement.

The Universal Church (I am not speaking of any institutional church that you may be familiar with, or have been in contact with!) is still alive and growing. Israel, as a religion, is gone (no temple!), Rome is gone. The Kingdom of God is flourishing.

There might have been no reported mass hallucinations…

Are you arguing from silence – Not very solid validation of a point.


Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 12

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

Again for the not recording immediately you even did this experiment in boy scouts did you not? did the story in your case get skewed? … so the likeliness of that is highly unlikely still

Please reread my post earlier, where I tried to explain that it is NOT a multiplicity of oral story tellings prior to the writing of the gospels, but that eye-witnesses recorded the life and death of Jesus.

Probability is not a factor in this. Either have the intellectual integrity to state that these men (the apostles) were bold faced liars who duped entire nations (eventually), and in that lie, suffered poverty, persecution, distress and finally martyrdom (‘cept for John), or consider their record as having validity. These men were eye witnesses of the resurrection!

But then take into account the error of the “creation” …

Creationism is not the issue. You weren’t there – I wasn’t there. All those testing methods sound impressive. Not an issue concerning the Biblical record of Jesus’s life and death!

Jones town massacre….hmmm one person making many believe his story…sounds like religion or any other endeavor with false stories and no hard evidence doesn’t it? Or any other religion that is in practice or ever was practiced…

Religion is a trap! I fell into it, and I fear you may fall into it. I am NOT defending religion! Religion, in my humble opinion, has enslaved as many folk as any “vice” in this world.

I am NOT defending religion!

It is the historical Jesus, and Him only, that I want to focus on. He made claims, that if they are not true, should be considered the worst of lies. If the resurrection is true, and is, as the New Testament states, and is God’s “validation” of His claims, His claims need to be considered .

You have to be honest with facts, Friend. Propaganda, and smear tactics are not worthy of a fella who can think like you.


Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 11

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

Granted the outliers would skew the data for life span but for total amount of the human population and amount of disease, illness, etc. would have made these stats still unlikely..

Unlikely does not prove anything, and you must have misread my response earlier. Avg life span is NOT the issue. It is the specific life spans of those recording the historical record of Jesus that is the issue!

Plus the whole biblical theology is nothing more than stories that have been reiterated….

A statement that you have not proven.

These people also believed in some of the most ridiculous things that even a child would not believe in today if they were informed properly witches, ghosts,etc

Where is it recorded that the apostles, who recorded the life and death of Jesus, believed in witches and ghosts?

Back then did they know about bacteria or viral infections? or was it bad spirits?

What has bacteria and viral infections have to do with the record of Jesus?


Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 10

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

You are basing your answers on writings/scriptures that have no validity…

Definition of  valid –… to be well-grounded on principles or evidence; able to withstand criticism or objection, as an argument; sound.

Although you have claimed many times that the scriptures are not a reliable source, this does not make them so. (I claim I can sing, but everyone else knows better. And the more I claim it, the surer everyone else is of the truth!)

Please prove to me, in one specific instance from the scriptural record, the invalidity of the document. You see, one of the definitions of the term valid is “able to withstand criticism”.

The Bible (or at least parts of it) has faced attacks from its enemies for close to 3500 yrs, and it is still “standing”. In the last century it has been “validated” by archeology many times over.

One instance is the book of Daniel, where Belshazzar, King of Babylon is mentioned. Critics found fault with this mention, since no Babylonian records named such a king. That is until the 19th century, when archeologists uncovered a stone with the writing of a Babylonian king speaking of his son Belshazzar as co-regent. Amazing discovery, since, in the Old Testament, this King B actually offered Daniel the position of being 3rd in power in the Kingdom. Third, because King B. was actually the second in command.


Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 9

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.
This post is a single message from my friend and is supplied to give context for the following posts as I seek to respond to each of his concerns below.

Hope your trip was good sorry to hear about the burn though I like to rant so i just type and i’m again busy with moving, school, work, etc..so might take longer than before sorry. But a lot of good videos on I tunes or YouTube featuring: Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Dan Dennett, and Chris Hitchens. They bring up good points that are current and tested, biased? yes! but at least there biases comes from studies that can be reconstructed by anyone who has time and the resources.

You are basing your answers on writings/scriptures that have no validity…granted the outliers would skew the data for life span but for total amount of the human population and amount of disease, illness, etc. would have made these stats still unlikely…plus the whole biblical theology is nothing more than stories that have been reiterated….you say you know the age of these people, yet these people also believed in some of the most ridiculous things that even a child would not believe in today if they were informed properly witches, ghosts,etc.

Back then did they know about bacteria or viral infections? or was it bad spirits? Again for the not recording immediately you even did this experiment in boy scouts did you not? did the story in your case get skewed? and if not it can not be taken as fact since there has to be a statistical significance of (your choice) p>.01 or even better p>.001 to support/reject either the null or research hyp. (depending on what is being studied and which test is being used) N of 1 phenomenon!! 16-69 yrs is a fairly large gap in terms of human years so the likeliness of that 69 is highly unlikely still, but then take into account the error of the “creation” of earth being dated at 10,000 approx yrs ago…or is it 6,000 yrs….something along those ludicrous lines by creationists, but the real estimate is closer to 4,600,000,000 yrs via testable radio carbon dating, potasium-argon dating, Uranium-thorium dating, dendrochronology, etc.

Jones town massacre….hmmm one person making many believe his story…sounds like religion or any other endeavor with false stories and no hard evidence doesn’t it? Or any other religion that is in practice or ever was practiced…Power of suggestion is related to the social interaction theory…someone is suggested/told something by someone else (crack head) and are wanting acceptance or approval from the social stigma or even mass social acceptance from your “in-group” so they conform accordingly to become a part of the group…a majority of the human species wants to be accepted by a group or belong, to be loved, to be a “brother” (fictive kin) “sister”, etc.

The bible, army regimes, gangs, cults or any social groups seeking to ban together traditionally high jack these terms meant for survival of close relatives (you would want to save a family member supposedly before a stranger) this effectively makes that person seem like kin but it’s a fictive kin since they have no genetic traits to you (hopefully there isn’t just in case for inbreeding purposes). There might have been no reported mass hallucinations but you cannot say there wasn’t (back then information was recorded as meticulously as is now), but again with social acceptance people will conform nicely just to fit in. All in all the bible is not in it’s original writings (when ever that happened) and has been reiterated to suit the purposes of those using it, others religions have had to use some of the christian based faith stories and reiterated it to suit there purpose. The bible cannot be taken seriously as fact, literature maybe (english classes).

But a question for you Carl, as Dr. Dawkins would ask “if you were born in Norway in the times of the vikings would you have believed in Votan? or 2010 CE in India with Brahma? there is no particular reason to pick on the Judeo-Christian god in which the sheerest accident you were brought up and the only thing you were introduced to as a susceptible minded child”

Hey Friend – Glad to see your response. Thought I would stick with the previous format, so that an old man like me can keep his scattered thoughts in order.


Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 8

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.

A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”

Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.

I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.

Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.

If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.

If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses. I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment. I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.

My comments and responses are in red.


But the power of suggestion is powerful as well….and who knows things could have been exagerated or just lied about as well.

Jesus did not suggest His resurrection – He TOLD the disciples often during His ministry that He would die and rise again. The disciples would not believe it. Not until the apostles (and many disciples) saw, touched and spent time with the resurrected Jesus for 40 days did they believe.
Even with this extended experience, the disciples still were full of “fear and trembling” until ten days after Jesus ascended into the clouds/heaven. At that time the disciples started preaching the resurrected Christ.

These events are non-repeatable which means they have no hard evidence stating they could even be close to true…remember what someone thinks is true does not make it true, unless that person can back up their claims with more than anecdotal evidence.

I think you are true.
By that I mean that your birth was a non-repeatable event. Being non-repeatable has no bearing on the truthfulness of a happening. Your existence proves the legitimacy of the anecdotal evidence that the birthing doctor may give concerning your birth.
I am looking forward to your response, and hope you are having a great day


Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend. I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 7

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

-…the lucky individual who got to witness these events he/she still did not write them down immediately which again would dis condone the reliability of their experience.
The first statement is accurate – the men who witnessed these events did not write them down immediately. They had no idea what they were witnessing, as to its impact on their lives or the world. But Jesus promised them that everything that they needed would be “brought to their remembrance”. An example of this promise is …
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
As for mass hallucinations it is possible that water supplies could have been tainted or food supplies spoiled with certain mycilium who knows?
One of the problems with this reasoning is that there is no reported mass hallucinations of the general public during this period, and your suggestion implies that the disciples intentionally ingested the hallucinogenic. If so, the force of your argument seems to evaporate.

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 6

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

-the avg life span of a human was approximately 40
I do not know where you got this data, but given the fact that infant mortality was extremely high during this time, the avg life span would have been definitely skewed. If a person survived the initial first years, “statistically” this person was, could it be said, an outlier, and very easily could live beyond the “avg” life span.
Be that as it may, average life span is not the issue.
The issue is the specific life span of the authors. Gospel writers are the issue, not the letters of Paul, or even the book of Revelation, since these books do not primarily record the historical life of Jesus.
Mathew, and Luke were working “stiffs” during the ministry of Jesus, so at the time of the writing of their gospels, they were somewhere in the upper 50’s / lower 60’s
Mark was a teenager during the ministry of Jesus, so his age at the time of his writing he also was in his 50’s
John was a teenager during the ministry of Jesus, and it is commonly thought that his gospel was written approx 85 – 90 AD. Therefore, he could have been as old as 70 yrs at the time of his writing.

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 5

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

I am back from the trip – It was fun, but I am burnt!
As for your last comments, I have responded to them individually, for your viewing pleasure (haha)
The bible was written an estimated 30-60 years after the death of Jesus
…The earliest NT writings are probably the books of James (43-58 AD), Galations (49-52 AD) and 1 & 2 Thessalonians (50 – 54 AD). The latest NT writing could possibly be the book of Revelation (96 AD) (which is apocalyptic in genre, not historically based on Jesus earthly life)
I personally believe the book was written prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, but that is not allowing for a worst case scenario for your argument!)
So with these dates, your initial statement is invalid!
The NT was written an estimated 16 – 69 yrs after the death and resurrection of Jesus (27 AD)

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 4

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

The bible was written an estimated 30-60 years after the death of Jesus….the avg life span of a human was approximately 40…I’m sure if you do the stats you’ll find it’s unlikely that the same person(s) who witnessed these things were not first hand, and if it was the lucky individual who got to witness these events he/she still did not write them down immediately which again would dis condone the reliability of their experience.
As for mass hallucinations it is possible that water supplies could have been tainted or food supplies spoiled with certain mycilium who knows? But the power of suggestion is powerful as well….and who knows things could have been exaggerated or just lied about as well. These events are non-repeatable which means they have no hard evidence stating they could even be close to true…remember what someone thinks is true does not make it true, unless that person can back up their claims with more than anecdotal evidence.
Just an FYI I’m at work and typing on the go and yes I like to converse myself 🙂 but I see your catch 22 but the amount of information gathered has all pointed towards no real creator just transitional forms via evolution.
Hey Friend – things are really crazy for me for the next few days going on vacation with my wifey – until May 6th to be specific, so if I lag in responding, it is not because of a lack of desire but just “out of pocket” – (a texan slang)
Take care and I’ll “type” when I get back – k?
Sounds good Carl 🙂 safe trip and have fun!

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 3

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.

A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”

Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.

I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.

Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.

If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.

If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses. I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment. I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.

My comments and responses are in red.


No offence but if you tell a story or experience and you repeat it then another person yells another…etc. What happens to the story? It becomes highly skewed…it’s even proven in many cases of mistaken identity in court cases and mistaken identity…the human mind is highly susceptible to disillusions and with the use of the availability heuristic humans can misjudge and create a memory, image, sound, etc. So anything written down anything shorter than a few minutes past the event it can not be fully accepted as truth.

Your concept is true – I used to play the very same game when I was in boy scouts – (don’t laugh!)
The problem is that though this is a provable experience – ie skewed stories through multiple humans, the concept cannot be applied to the gospels.
You see, the ones who wrote the gospels were the ones who heard the initial original message and watched the very man (Jesus) walk and talk. (and die!)
I s’pose you may say that the apostles were all hallucinating the resurrected Christ. But you must account for this multi-person hallucination (at one time up to 500 people saw the resurrected Jesus), being the source of conviction that brought suffering, beatings, persecution and death.
(Peter, according to popular tradition (not in the Bible) is said to have been crucified upside down, and survived on the cross for days before dying.)
You know, I have not talked (typed?) with many atheists, and I appreciate your willingness to converse. Believe me, I will not take offense at anything you mention – It is just good to discuss – It is how I learn.
But as I was thinking ’bout you the other day, it occurred to me that to be an athiest requires that of proving a universal negative, and to do that you would have to be all-knowing. If this universal negative has to prove Gods non-existence, it becomes self defeating – Only “GOD” knows all things
Kinda a catch 22
Looking forward to your response!

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend. I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 2

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

Jesus rising from the dead? no one else does so why one person out of billions upon billions of others don’t? I donate $15 a month to one of the support a child organizations (i’m a student what do you expect) as for suffering in other ways… what can one do except try and educate and spread the word of reality…once i have paid debt off and have extra money i can try and influence on a monetary level more efficiently…unfortunately most of the power is held with in government and more so in corporations bank books.
Everyone is an armchair critic, and some of the ones that go out and try to alleviate the suffering prey upon the suffering to boost their image (mother Teresa) her quote along the lines which were people need to suffer to be closer to god…kinda immoral in my books but..no comment.
Distractions of reality? or distractions of trying to be hoaxed into believing something that is enticing but false? I don’t understand what the distraction is? Every part of the bible makes no sense in today’s day and age…psychologically every enticing aspect of the bible such as eternal life and someone who is always loving and there for you is what a hominid seeks….there’s nothing special here except that certain things are said to satisfy a lot of human emotions (terror management theory).
Biologically most things are not even possible in the stories mentioned in the bible (virgin birth). Now don’t get me wrong the bible would be good for an english class or literature but for reality? I think not…it makes no sense if you learn about biology, psychology, genetics, physics, etc…
Hope all is well with you Carl 🙂
Golly Friend – this again shows that your understanding of the scriptures are not accurate.
Many times the apostles (the Bible) described the raising of the dead, and they were eye witnesses to these events – specifically the resurrection of Jesus Christ. These men died horrible deaths, (secular histories affirm this!)
Why?
Why suffer and die for a lie?

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

Discussions with an Atheist – Part 1

atheist

A long time ago, I was browsing my Facebook page when I came across a post that ridiculed Kirk Cameron’s efforts to sell an “Atheist” Bible.
A friend (who it turns out to be an atheist) seemed to think that Kirk was “uninformed”
Well I thought, lets discuss this issue, and what follows is a record of our discussion.
I really looked forward to his responses and enjoyed considering and responding to his concerns.
Some of my friends comments are a bit lengthy, and as I read them I found echoes of myself, seeking to defend a position simply by supplying a massive quantity of words, knowing inside that he quality of the argument was weak.
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus, you may find encouragement, and some understanding of an atheist’s worldview.
If you are an atheist, I would encourage you to read and consider my responses.  I seek to understand your position, and if you see a fallacy in my thinking, please comment.  I only ask that you focus your position to one point at a time, in order that I may respond (if I can) without unnecessary confusion.
My comments and responses are in red.

Music is a bit corny, and it seems he is reading some prepared text. And selling the Bible may be giving fuel to the implication of profiteering. He may even be an idiot. I don’t know.
The issue is whether or not the Bible’s message – that of the resurrection of Jesus Christ – is accurate.
If it is, then the implications are enormous.
If it isn’t, then Kirk Cameron (and all believers in the message of His resurrection) can be ignored.
Before you condemn it, read the Bible for yourself.
It is very surprising!!!
I’ve read enough of the passages to know they are stories that do not reflect an accurate amount of information. It’s like telling a story today and writing about it years later but not by you….the first passages were not written until approximately 50 years after a death of someone who was creating a cult (small amount of people) that would later grow to a religion. Just other religions before it starts with a few and if the message is enticing enough then more join and grow.
Unfortunately or fortunately as we understand more about biological, psychological, genetic, etc. influences it seems very unlikely for such a being to exist. I am biased toward the facts that are presented by repeated measures and not a single anomaly that only a select few can observe…and it’s a bit ludicrous to think that only a few countries in the world can pray and have a miracle happen…is it 5500/day in Africa that die from aids? And a majority of the population had been introduced to Christianity….but alas they still suffer everyday, why such selection? It just makes absolutely no sense if you look at the whole of things instead of such a concentric view of life.
Did Jesus rise from the dead?
The recording of the histories, the probability of a certain thing happening, (or person existing), and the suffering of untold innocents are merely sidebars to the issue.
By the way, what are YOU doing to alleviate the suffering of the dying?
It is easy to be an armchair critic, esp if your search for truth relies on “reading enough passages”
BTW, most of your arguments are very common distractions to the core issue of YOUR responsibility to search out truth. In the end, if you are satisfied with the above arguments, be content.
Otherwise, continue to search.
Be blessed, Friend!
BTW, as I reread your msg, I seemed to “hear” you link Christianity with a health and wealth prosperity gospel (ie 5500 die in Africa and yet introduced to Christianity)
I suppose the passages you read in the Bible didn’t include the many passages about believers suffering sickness, poverty, sadness and persecution. (BTW the Bible is rife with these passages!)
This apparent link doesn’t exist, and might hint at the implication that the passages you “read” might be select popular passages from a sunday school, or common discussion texts that are discussed in a group that heard about these texts.
Read the Bible. It may surprise you what you are fighting against.
Be blessed Friend

Hey thanks for dropping by and reading my post, especially if you are an atheist friend.  I hope to hear from you and would appreciate a comment to begin a discussion.

Have a great day.


Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.