A few weeks back, I published the first of a series of posts offering 60 second video discussions on alternatives to the popular Calvinistic teaching in our churches these days.
The videos were provided by Dr. Leighton Flowers, and addressed a number of topics that related to Calvinism and it’s resultant effects on the believer.
Since then, I have received a number of comments in response to the videos, primarily from those that are associated with the reformed thought process (Thinking like Calvin).
Initially, the comments were cordial, but eventually, due to my guests frustration or anger, their responses became heated, to the point that I was instructed to repent and believe the gospel.
Passion to share your faith is commendable, but we must remember that we are called to fight the good fight, not the harsh fight. By that I mean, we are to fight with goodness, love, kindness, and patience. Condemning a brother, (or even a non-believer) usually results in loss of communication and personal offence. With no positive fruit coming from the effort. Trust me – I have spent far too long trying to argue and berate people into the kingdom!!!
These things ought not to be.
Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
I would encourage all to be gracious in our discussions with those we meet, either in our workplace, over the phone, through teleconferencing, or even on a blog post, in a comment section.
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Please look for my next post on Calvin’s Concerns, where I will make an effort to consider a contradiction in Calvinism. Hope to see you there.
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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.
31 thoughts on “Calvin’s Concerns – Discussions”
Sorry not too much more than one prior but it might have been enough if length is a determining factor
If your teaching is true, (to be a Christian requires faith in Calvinism) then all that are not believers in Calvinism cannot believe, and thier destruction brings glory to Calvinism’s God.
Since all is decreed by God, you should be the most content of all people, since you are chosen and safe.
As mentioned earlier, the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome.
You keep using the word “ Calvinism” I’m not even for sure what all that entails and which version you are referring.
Please, Let me ask a question. Was the apostle Paul being divisive and unloving by judging the Israelites lost in Romans 10? Was he praying to God for their salvation because he believed in free will and he wasn’t believing that God determines when and whom will be saved and who He will be giving the knowledge of the truth to fulfilling 2 Corinthians 4:6 and John 3:3-8 ?
Once, I heard a pastor/ teacher say (and I’m going to use the concept instead of the label to describe what he said paraphrasing)…. you are a person that believes God controls who is saved while on your knees praying but a free will believer while on your feet while not praying. I have to keep in my mind when God creates there are no surprises he creates no unknowns which correlates to Roman 9 “ why did you make me like? The scripture is clear He makes vessels of mercy and vessels fitted out for destruction. He does this in order to demonstrate his wrath and to make His power known in order that he make his riches known on vessels of mercy
I’m anticipating Eve judged God to be unrighteous just before eating the fruit after listening to all the positive reasons (lies) the devil was giving her “ you will be like God” knowing good and evil” the fruit looked good and was good for food and will make you wise …. now compare the free will believer “ God would not be righteous if he didn’t give me the freedom to choose meaning …freedom from God’s interference with my decision to choose because I have the inherent ability to choose the good God based on what the serpent said, (in my observance of course) in Genesis and lack of the free will believer to accept the plain language in Romans 9 Speaking Peace when there is no peace There are 2 Gods being described the free will God and the God that controls everything to bring about His plan to glorify himself through Christ. If man truly had free will, his plan would not have been determined from before the foundation of the world and He would be a God that really wasn’t sure what he created but we know that He is omniscient because He ordained all things. All that the Father gives to Christ will come and Jesus promised since it was the will of the Father not to lose one of them and he would raise them up in the last day Please notice “the will of the Father” not the will of man and please notice Romans 9:16 not by the will of man Lastly, we are to trust God’s word not what appeals to natural man’s thinking which is a product of being spiritually dead
A free will God cannot save, he needs man to do his part The God who controls His creation promised to save his people Matthew 1:21 and the gates of hades shall not be victorious God cannot depend on the will of natural man no matter how appealing it sounds.
I posted a reply, once again, a few minutes ago but it didn’t post
Was it lengthy?
Sort of but too much more than one just prior
The post most likely needs you to approve it
Please notice the context in Romans 16:17 The context is those that are causing divisions through quarreling are causing stumbling by feeding false doctrine contrary to sound doctrine. We are discussing what sound doctrine is. You are equivocating the context on the term “quarrelsome” I’m describing one God and you are describing another It is a discussion that can be compared to a discussion such as with a Mormon or Watchtower representative. Which is scriptural? It all starts with John 3:3-8 my reading says in those verses God sovereignly gives his spirit to whom he wills and that a natural man must be given the spirit before a Christian is born and not before.
Regarding your “quarrelsome” comment Jude 1:3 is another scripture stating we are to contend earnestly for the faith once given over to the Saints.
The issue is not contending but quarreling and contending in order to bring false doctrine into the assembly of true believers. I’m contending against the false “free will” God which is not part of sound doctrine according to Romans 9 and others
You keep using the word “Calvinist” Do Calvinists believe God unconditionally makes vessels of mercy and also unconditionally makes vessels fitted out for destruction as Romans 9 says? To my knowledge Charles Spurgeon was a leading supposed “Calvinist” and he was the objector in verse 14, and verse 19 or 20 I’m not an objector to Romans 9 so call me something else How about a believer in the written word in Roman 9
There are many flavors of calvinism, but I think you are closer to the five points of calvinism than Spurgeon was. (Was he a believer who denied limited atonement?)
I’m not sure, I think he believed Christ died for only the ones The Father gave to Christ but I don’t think he believed God makes the vessels fitted out for destruction I think he believed that make themselves if I understood what he complained about
I too am unsure what he believed in that regard. Like I said, there are many flavors/types of Calvinism.
If I’m quarreling and not contending then show me how to contend for the faith once given over to the Saints. Jude 1:3 I couldn’t assemble in a gathering that taught free will because it describes a Gospel with a God that cannot save; since God is dependent on man for salvation and gives a man a reason to boast in himself rather than the cross. If true, then Christ could have died for no one particularly since John 6:65 is true
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except IT were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:65 KJV
Can you help me identify what “IT” is in the verse you quoted above?
65 And He said, Because of this, I have told you that no one is able to come to Me if it is not given to him from My Father.
The verse answers that question What it is?
King James 3
No on is able to come if it (The ability)is not given to him by my Father which correlates with John 6:37 All that the Father gives to me will come
Which correlates with except a man be generated from above he cannot see or enter into the kingdom of God The spirit blows where it wills which is equated to so is the one generated of the spirit John 3:3-8
Which correlates with Romans 9:16 …. it is not by the will of man but of God showing mercy
Which correlates with John 1:12-13 not by the will of man but generated of God
Which correlates with Romans 9-15
God will have mercy on whomever he chooses
Scripture will interpret Scripture if you let it
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Could “IT” be the gospel??? The message that Jesus was preaching?
Since not one the father gives to Jesus will be lost then no “it”wouldn’t be the Gospel. A lot of people get to hear the gospel but don’t come and this verse says all the father gives will come
Here is how I see it. First, we all grow at different rates as Christians. Some are still feeding on the milk of the Word. While others are digesting some more solid foods.
When I pastored I always kept in mind those very things. I had to teach the Word so that all would benefit.
I have known some that had a tough time. They would take a couple of steps forward in the Lord, then they would face a trial and it would set them back.
If our discourse causes strife as to cause some to stumble then we have done a disservice to the work of the Lord.
Here is a portion of Scripture I feel would be appropriate for this post:
Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Thanks for the thought. I agree fully. Being divisive or prideful, even if possessing truth is not pleasing to the Lord.
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
2 Timothy 2:24
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Knowing the True God is divisive ?
I thought we agreed, it is the difference between having everlasting life (regeneration) or not having everlasting life. When God generates with a new spirit from above he gives us knowledge according to
2 Corinthians 4:6
Because it is God who said, “Out of darkness Light shall shine,” the One who shone in our hearts to give the illumination of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Isa. 42:6, 7, 16
The truth versus the false has to be divisive .. “Prideful” you shouldn’t throw that out so easily. You are promoting your thoughts which I could construe as being prideful since you are claiming man has “free will” that God can’t interfere with and if God doesn’t give you that freedom he is somehow not righteous especially if he chooses unconditionally which really since he is omniscient can’t be any other way. Whatever he makes is fixed by virtue that he is God the potter and not the clay
I closed a Twitter account because people just wanted nothing but to argue. Not only argue but declaring I was a false teacher.
Some folks struggle with handling truth with humility. I know I struggle everyday, since I love a good debate, but have found that when I win the arguement, I loose the person.
True! All you can do is pray that God will open to them the truth of His’ Word.
This comment is meant to be kind and coming from a caring nature. That is all well and good; But the real concern of all professing christians should be, are we serving the same God. Are there 2 compatible Gods that project opposite characteristics? Is man the final arbitrator in salvation; or is God? There can only be one True God and one true believer in the actualTruth. John 17:3 says it makes a difference that you know the True God and the one whom he sent
One last comment, John 17:3 says knowing the True God is everlasting life. Consequently, You do not have everlasting life, if you do not know Him
Totally agree with that statement