A while back, we were enjoying a time of Bible study in our home, after enjoying some supper together with our friends. It was a very relaxed time and I think we were discussing Mark’s gospel.
An innocent question came up and the discussion veered to the topic of hell, specifically, if Jesus went to hell.
It turns out I had wrote a blog post titled “Did Jesus go to Hell?” a few months prior and suggested that instead of chasing this rabbit trail, that anyone interested in that topic may pursue my thoughts in their free time.
One brother did. This is the continuation of my brothers concerns over my blog post. As a reminder, my comments are indented, in red, and interspersed within my brother’s comments.
What is the point of judgment if you are going to be forgiven anyways?
Judgement (krino and its compunds – anakrino, diakrino ) have many shades of meaning, from simply to “discern” all the way to “condemnation.” To judge (krites and its compounds – dikastēs, kritērion) defines the one judging.
You surely will agree that at the believer’s judgement, condemnation is not considered. Also, we who have been forgiven, will be judged.
|New Testament (Greek) for “judge”
||examine, judge, ask question, search, discern
||doubt, judge, discern, contend, waver, misc
||judge, determine, condemn, go to law, call in question, esteem, misc
||to judge, judgment, judgment seat
Judgement has concept of separation, or of making a determination between right and wrong. Katakrino is the term that strictly refers to condemnation, and at that, I am not sure if there is a time element associated with it. By that I mean, the word itself simply means condemn, not necessarily condemn forever. ( I bring this up since the term is used of condemning the Lord Jesus, and we both know that He was not condemned forever – Praise God!) The context may supply that information, but I do not see where the word itself carried a time element.
It is also interesting to note that the work Katakrino is used 19 times in the New Testament. Of those nineteen time, none of them refer to God condemning any one
As a matter of fact, it looks like men do a lot of the condemning (ie the men of Ninevah, the Queen of the South, even ourselves (Rom 2:1, 14:23)). Other occurrences in the New Testament speak of the Messiah receiving condemnation. One time the Messiah spoke on condemning, but that He would not condemn the sinner. He is something else, eh? (John 8:10-11)
The “Katakrino” list may be found at the end of this note (if of interest).
(As I am studying this concept of judgment, I have found a much larger body of data in the New Testament than first reviewed. In the interest of brevity, I will leave the above mini-study as is, know that it is incomplete, and I will return to it.)
That is a minor point but has no explanation if I conceded to believing in “soul sleep” or universal salvation for all.
I am not sure your intent of the previous sentence. The soul sleep question is a nonissue for me.
So When Jesus said it was better for Judas not to have been born, (Matthew 26:24, Mark 14:21) woe doesn’t have any significance if there is no consequences for betraying the Son of the living God.?
I am going to assume the consequence you are referring to above is Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT).
The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
For the Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
I understand your point, but note that the Messiah said “it would have been better” for Judas to not exist than to be born, not “Judas will burn in hell forever”
“Better” is a comparative term. If I said “I am better than Joe” this doesn’t mean I am equal to the great apostle Paul. Better simply compares to conditions, but it does not supply the extent of the difference between the two things being compared. In other words, Judas destiny was defined as being less than nothing. A negative condition.
So, if the Scriptures teaches ECT, Jesus may have been hinting at Judas destiny. (A negative condition!)
If He meant something else, (like living and dying under the guilt of condemning a just man), that is also possible. (Also a negative condition!)
Both of these destinies (I am sure there are additional destinies that may be possible for Judas) for Judas would surely fit the description Jesus provides of “not existing”
To demand ECT is taught in this passage would be considered eisegesis. The verse does not clearly inform us of Judas destiny, other than being a negative condition.
Or blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
One verse in the New Testament speaks of blasphemy against the Spirit
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
There are multiple ways to understand this passage, but if we use the grammatical, historical method, a possible interpretation could be that Jesus was condemning the people he spoke to in the historical setting, that is the pharisees that just claimed the work of the Spirit as sourced out of Satan.
Or the woes of Matthew 23. Greater condemnation, v.33-how will they escape the condemnation of Hell?
I guess you don’t believe what Jesus said in v.35 either? No purgatory in Scripture. No escaping the judgment of God having received the knowledge of the truth ( Hebrews 10:26-31).
If you believe otherwise with all due respect I pity you.
With that said, my discussion with my brother has concluded.
Our final post in this series will consider some after thoughts on this interaction. I do hope we can get together again. Thanks for reading and may you have a blessed day.
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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.