Calvinism · Contradiction · Doctrinal · Universalism

Book Look – Jesus Undefeated – Passage 1

As I have stated in previous posts, I was surprised with the number of passages that seem to support an evangelical universal reconciliation teaching. Of course many may think, as I initially thought, that this teaching didn’t include a form of hell, or that the cross was not necessary.

Please do not think that this teaching is the same as the “all roads lead to heaven” teaching, which I consider to be blasphemous. There is only one way to the Father, and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

With this, I would like to begin delving into some of the New Testament passages Mr. Giles brought to my attention, for your consideration, edification and civil discussion.

Our next post will consider 1 Timothy 4:10

Passage 1

1 Timothy 4:10

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

This verse always confused me as a Calvinist. I remember actually skipping this verse (mentally) as I read through the 1 Timothy. It turns out I tend to avoid passages that conflict with my current understanding of the Word. A difficult position to be in, but then again, we aren’t called to be readers of cartoon comics.

It is important to consider the entire Word of God in formulating a belief, and as I continue to study and ask for direction in understanding, I find I am accumulating more questions than answers. One of these questions is in relation to the teaching on hell. And one of the passages that provides some of God’s thoughts on the topic of hell is the one we are looking at today.

So what does this verse say? Does it teach the damnation of a portion of God’s creation? Or that only some reach the golden shores of heaven?

Of course, if the apostle Paul meant to insert the words “kinds of” so as the verse would read ….the living God, who is the Savior of all kinds of people..

If that is what Paul meant, we might have to begin inserting words elsewhere to make the Word more comfortable for us. But again, I think that is too easy a way out of this possible dilemma, for this verse definitely throws a monkey wrench in our standard “orthodox” way of thinking.

First off, he states that God is the Savior of all people, which seems clear. If he intended to insert “kinds of” into the verse, it would still not resolve the dilemma. (By the way, I am not advocating the insertion of words into any text!) The kicker is the next phrase, “especially of those who believe”. What does that mean?

Paul preached to the nations the necessity of faith in the crucified Savior. He is the great apostle of the gospel of grace, the “faith plus nothing” gospel that began the expansion of the church in the first century, with the growth continuing even today. Who would have thunk it?

So, could Paul be hinting at the salvation of all people, (he seems to state that clearly) but that some “particular” people, those “particular” people that have believed, have already entered into salvation?

No no no.

That can’t be true, since there has to be a hell for those who refuse to accept the Messiah before death. This is utterly impossible. Beyond the scope of the written Word!

And yet…

When the Lord came to earth, He scandalized the religious community with His acceptance of sinners and tax collectors. His love for sinners, (and even Samaritans!) was beyond all the expectations of those who looked for the Messiah.

When the Lord was crucified and rose again, the infant church stayed in Israel. For whatever their strategy was in performing Acts 1:8, it took special revelation to both Peter and that newby Paul for the church to accept those dirty gentiles into it’s fold. His grace and love again expanded beyond the accepted bounds of religious understanding. The Old Testament made reference to the expansion of the Kingdom in many places, and yet the infant church stayed in Israel for years. Why?

I will not be dogmatic in the restriction of God’s grace and love for His creation, that He loves only some and hates the rest. This is not the nature of God, for the nature of our God is that “God is love”. Universal reconciliation may be offensive to some in the church, and may cause claims of heresy. That is fair, since we are to protect the truth of God. But let us consider all the truth of God, and not exclude the verses that may interrupt of systematic theology. God tends to upset the apple cart sometimes and His glory and grace, in reaching ALL would only be magnified if this is His will.

Granted, there are many questions universal reconciliation needs to address, and I am seeking to find answers with passages in the Word that argue against this teaching. Questions involving New Testament descriptions of perishing, of everlasting punishment, of judgement to come and of “post death conversion”.

It is a wild teaching, too good to be true?!

Surely there must be a hell to avoid. The judgement of our saving God must be a prime motivator in our day to day life, for the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

What think you? This is the beginning of at least 10 posts that will provide passages that suggest (some quite clearly) of a universal reconciliation. I need your feedback, so as not to be simply hearing myself think.

I look forward to a civil and honest discussion.



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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

16 thoughts on “Book Look – Jesus Undefeated – Passage 1

  1. You have successfully diverted me , once again, and avoided the requested interpretation of the terms found in the above comment which should be the whole discussion; minus the emotional side tracking.

    Lake of Fire” “ tormented Day and night to the ages the ages” “ if anyone was not found in the book of life he was thrown into the Lake of Fire”

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  2. Read Deuteronomy 32:39, 1 Samuel 2:6-8, Job 12:14-25, Job 23:13-14, Psalms 115:3,Psalms 135:5-7, Proverbs 16:33,Proverbs 21:1, Isaiah 40:21-26, Isaiah 42:9, Isaiah 45:5-7, Isaiah 46:9-11, Jeremiah 18:6, Lam 3:37, Ezekiel 17:24

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    1. Read Matthew 13:10-15, John 5:21, John 6:37, John 6:65, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9:11-24, Ephesians 1:3-6, Ephesians 1:11, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, 2 Timothy 1:9, 1 Peter 2:7-8,

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  3. Considering the Bible quote

    “That can’t be true, since there has to be a hell for those who refuse to accept the Messiah before death”

    Scripture has already proven that the ones not found in the book of life who are judged according to their works are thrown along with the false prophet and the first beast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented day and night to the ages of the ages. Revelation 20:10-15

    1 Timothy 4:10 KJ3
    for to this we also labor and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Savior of all men, especially (particularly) of believing (ones)

    Comment: God is the savior of All Men.
    In 1 Timothy 2:4
    who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of truth.

    Question : Does everyone come to the knowledge of the truth? No, not according to scripture. Does God accomplish His will ? Yes, according to scripture.

    Job 23:13 Isaiah 46:10 Daniel 4:34-35 Roman 9:19 John 6:37-44

    These verses for example have demonstrated God accomplishes His Will and man cannot interfere with His accomplishing that will .

    Isaiah 55:11
    11 so shall My Word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall do that which I please, and it shall prosper in that which I sent it to do!

    God’s word goes out and accomplishes the exact goal for which He sent it out.

    In 1 Timothy 4:10 The Apostle Paul is stating that The living God is the Savior of “ All Men” Scripture has already demonstrated not all are saved; but God does say He is not a respecter of men in one nation only or even a particular tribe only or a particular language only or a particular people only, but He is the Savior of “All Men” (Jew and Gentile) even those that are Kings and ones of pre eminence; then the Apostle names those out of “All Men” namely or particularly that He is The Savior of “ believing (ones)

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    1. The Scripture you refer to (Rev 20:10-15) proves nothing about hell, other than your conviction of its interpretation. And you are entitled to your interpretation, but if there are valid interpretations other than yours, for you to be dogmatic would show a narrowness of thought, a hardness of heart and a lack of grace toward others who understand the same Scripture that you use, in a different light. This is a common thread in your responses. It kinda reminds me of the saying “My way or the highway” Definitely not a commendable attitude.
      But thanks for sharing your thoughts. By the way, a bit of grace may help others consider your points.

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      1. Read Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:15 It has nothing to do with hardness of heart or narrowness of mind; but what the scripture says and your obvious reluctance to accept what is written

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        1. Why do you consider yourself to be without any error?
          I am amazed at your obvious reluctance to consider possible interpretations that may conflict with your vision of a God that controls us as robots and hates the majority of His creation

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          1. I never said I was without error The scripture is without error Your last part of your comment shows you are traveling on emotion Those 2 scriptures referenced are very clear.

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            1. Ok – granted – maybe I should have asked … Why do you consider your interpretations to be without error?

              Also, please do not attack to messenger, but the message. You are judging my emotional state simply because I challenged you on a topic. This is a common tactic by both you and your friend Paul, when you have not been able to answer questions that I have asked.

              I have put up with much abuse and accusation from you (and Paul) and find your general attitude one of superiority. Such is the fruit of your theology.

              May God bless you in all your studies and open your eyes to the amazing truths found in the Word of God. It is not a textbook of theology!

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              1. Instead of labeling me “Hard hearted” and “narrow-minded” for giving an interpretation of 1 Timothy 4:10 and then attributing me with a vision of a God that controls us like robots and hates most of creation,

                Please define or give me your interpretation for the following terms so you can help address my needed softening of the heart and the needed increase of mind to the level of wide mindedness. Hopefully not enough that puts me into the wide path that leads to destruction.

                “Lake of Fire” “ tormented Day and night to the ages the ages” “ if anyone was not found in the book of life he was thrown into the Lake of Fire”

                If you give me a reasonable interpretation of the above, I will retract my assessment that you are traveling on emotion instead of what it says plainly in Revelation 20:10 and 20:15

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                  1. No, of course I’m not denying that God determined all things from before the foundation of the world. Robots are able to short circuit. God has even more control than robotic control He controls every particle every atom and any other minutia.

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                1. I did not label you “hard hearted” and “narrow-minded” for giving your interpretation of 1 Timothy 4:10. I sought to address your dogmatic stance, your unteachable standing within your theology.

                  My words were …”for you to be dogmatic would show a narrowness of thought, a hardness of heart and a lack of grace toward others who understand the same Scripture that you use, in a different light.”

                  I was addressing your perceived attitude of having the only valid interpretation of a text. You provide proof texts, and yet they are either general truths or you assume a specificity that the text may not provide, or you restrict the text to allow only your interpretation of it, implying your doctrine is pure and without fault.

                  1Co 14:36
                  What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

                  Many times I have enjoyed conversing with you, but you tend to be off-putting at times, and exhibit a lack of grace toward others of a different opinion.

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                  1. If I’m remembering the most recent sequence of written material correctly, I gave an interpretation the day before yesterday. You then labeled me narrow minded and hard hearted without providing an alternative interpretation. The only dogmatic phrase I mentioned was that the scripture plainly noted those self evident phrases in Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:15 such as “Tormented day and night” etc. I’m open to hearing some interpretation that would be more plain where tormented day and night doesn’t mean tormented day and night etc.

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