A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 2:5 For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed–God is witness.

Can you hear those in the church trying to degrade Paul? Their “ministry” of destruction describes his inner motives, his desire for things and his manipulation of those he seeks to gain from.

Flattery

This term is only used once in the New Testament and is associated with greed. It is a tool of the speaker to get on the good side of the hearer, to gain something from them. It is always associated with a message that favors the hearer, or the hearer’s condition. It includes excessive compliments, praising them beyond what the situation deems necessary.

Yes, the apostle who had been whipped and tortured, imprisoned and beaten was a man pleaser. Sometimes the defamation of a man’s character is blatantly flimsy, and so it is in this claim, yet it must have been accepted by some in the church to afford a response from the apostle.

This speaks of our responsibility to reject gullibility, to be willing to listen to others yet not to be swayed by arguments that are baseless, that we as believers are to be grounded in the truth, ready for those who may seek to convince us of their opinion, to our own hurt.

Paul a flatterer? This was a weak attack and speaks of the hearer’s willingness to let go of Paul’s message of self sacrifice and giving to others. Those not committed to the Savior and His apostle may seek an alternate opinion, that would allow their faith to settle elsewhere. A dangerous situation!

Greed

We have considered flattery, and the impact this claim may have on those in the church, but when we get to greed, this touches a nerve for myself. Not that I consider even a hint of this avarice expressed in the apostle Paul’s life, for he spent much of his ministry working for his own support, and rejected the common teaching of a salaried position. He lived by faith, went without, suffer hunger and deprivation and found God to be enough.

This claim of greed that is attached to the apostle Paul is as weak as the flattery claim in my opinion, and as such should be rejected.

When I suggested above that this topic touches a nerve for myself, I am referring to a modern church that is mad with greed. A modern church that accepts millionaire pastors, that feed the shepherds even as they consume the flock. A modern church that pushes a physical wealth as promised by the poverty stricken Messiah (He had no place to rest His head) and His apostles, who spoke of having no silver or gold. A modern church that is distracted from the kingdom in order to enjoy the world. A modern church, that sadly infects us all.

Flattery and greed. Paul was accused of this approach and motivation to the Thessalonian church, even though they experienced his life practice for a period.

Sadly, though the claim is baseless against the apostle Paul, it is not baseless against many in the modern church, and yet no one seems to care. No one sound the alarm that this is the very death of true Christianity, leaving behind an empty shell of what was. A hollowed out, weak church with nothing but self love.

I must quit. This topic is heavy on my heart, and I fear the worst for the modern church.

May the Lord Himself speak to the church, (may He speak to me!). May He drive into our thoughts and hearts the depth of this infection, and guide us out of the mire of greedy motivations and coveting of lowly things!

May we be like the apostle, slurred with the claim of flattery and greed, but clearly without a basis of the claim sticking.

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 2:4 but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts.

Paul has just defended himself from the claims his detractors spread of his impure motives, errors and any attempt to deceive. As mentioned earlier, he fully understood the reason those in the church may spread this slander about him, for if the messenger was defamed, the message became null and void, even harmful. A little slander goes a long way and though it may not be trusted by all in the church, it can be a very effective tool to split a church, to cause disunity and distract from the goal of the church!

Paul saw the writing on the wall, and he fights back, beginning with his commitment to God, and God’s commitment to him

Approved by God

Paul goes to the core of the issue, by speaking of the One who sent his troupe with the message of the gospel, and in the sending has approved of these men and their preaching.

In the trials and sufferings of this group, God has “dokimzoed” these servants

To be “dokimzoed” (δοκιμάζω dokimázō) is to be tested and to be found genuine. The object, or person in this instance, was examined and after a period of time, was found genuine. Once the testing is complete, the person has the approval of the testing authority.

God had placed on the apostle Paul and his team testing that is not described in this verse, but since he has recently spoken of his time in Philippi (vs 2), we may surmise he is speaking of the beatings, jailing and rescue from the prison. But let us remember he is defending the message here, the gospel he is preaching by describing God’s actions in rescuing him.

If God did not approve of this message he was spreading, this miraculous rescue from a prison must be explained by his detractors.

No, Paul and his team had been tested, at the very least in Philippi, but I suspect Paul could speak of more, and they were approved, found to be the real deal, and due to this, could be trusted to provide a truthful, God approved message.

Entrusted with the gospel

This is exactly what has happened, for as these men were tested and approved by God, God entrusted them with the message that cost His Son His life.

Earlier I had mentioned that the apostles testing may have been more than just in Philippi. To be entrusted with the spreading of the gospel, from what I understand Paul is saying, is to be tested by God first, and then to be sent out. Or at the very least, in the sending, testing would occur. Note that Paul mentioned “as we have been approved”, speaking of a past testing. The faithfulness of the servants had been tested and found genuine, and due to this, the gospel was committed to Paul and his team in their missionary travels.

Consider the importance of this message to God. The truine God had been establishing and orchestrating a condition for His Son to enter a sin sick world, provide a message of life to the world, and as the love of God was spread out to those who claimed to know God, those who claimed to know God crucified the very God they claimed to follow. Our messenger, God’s Son was crucified. Rejected. Murdered. And yet, in all this, the Son was resurrected from the grave, with one message – He is King, Savior of the World and Lord of all.

This message was and is the heartbeat of the Living God, and to be entrusted with this message is of the highest honor. God actually trusted Paul with His message, in the diffusion of His gospel throughout the known world.

Please God

Because of this successful testing, and because of this entrustment between God and His servant, Paul speaks. He is providing the source, even the motivation of speaking and spreading this message. Out of this mutual trust between God and him, Paul speaks.

And his goal as he speaks is two fold.

Not Please Man

To please someone is to seek their approval, to work to gain the approval of their audience, to adjust their lives in order to satisfy someone else’s opinions or desires!

Although I cannot prove this, I suspect he is separating himself from those in the church who seek the approval of men, those religious men (and women?) who spread errors, impure teaching and attempt to deceive, as they claim he does.

In general, Paul cares little for the approval of man. But is he seeking man’s disapproval? Is he speaking in order to offend, or is he simply seeking to provide a faithful witness.

There are those in the church who seek position, or office in the church by comforting those in the church in order to gain authority. This is not Paul’s goal. There are also those in the church who unnecessarily offend their listeners, thinking they do service to God by their harsh message.

Neither of these positions is taken by Paul. He has a goal in mind, and pleasing men is not a part of that goal!

Please God

This is central to Paul’s motivation. Since a wee boy, he has sought to please God. Through the trials and through the preaching, he is adjusting his life and thoughts to find approval before God.

Paul adds a critical phrase after this statement of his goal to please God. He speaks of God as the One who tests our hearts. This testing is the very same testing we spoke of in the earlier portion of our thoughts on this verse.

God “dokimzoes” our hearts. He is testing our hearts, through trials and circumstances to determine our genuineness as believers. I suspect God does this for a number of reasons, but the one reason I would like to end this post on is that He tests us for our own instruction!

We are a self deceiving people and in the daily back and forth of living, we make decisions and act out our desires. Our “heart” actually is the source of our actions, and in the testing of our hearts God provides proof of our desires in concrete, historical actions we do.

I am of the opinion that His heart wants us to succeed, to be faithful, to pass the tests we face as we walk with Him.

God tests our hearts, and we should be thankful for the nudging, conviction and call to repentance we experience as we seek to walk with Him.

He is faithful to us. May we seek to be faithful to Him!

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 2:3 For our appeal does not spring from error or impurity or any attempt to deceive,

Error

It has been s few weeks since we spent some time in 1 Thessalonians, so it may be wise to remind ourselves that Paul is in the middle of responding to the slurs and slander being slung around in the sanctuary.

Enough of the alliteration!

He was addressing the claim of those in the church that were charging multiple offences against the apostle, before his very church! In our last verse he spoke of his defense against the implication of his previous suffering. If he suffered under the authority of the city of Philippi, he surely was not to be listened to. Dang – he was “corrected” by the city government of Philippi when they put him to the rods!

For our verse this morning, he again speaks out against the enemies of the church by bringing to light a claim against him associated with the message he brought them. Specifically, the claim he is addressing is the moral character of the content of his message.

Impurity

First off, Paul speaks of his exhortation, his message to the Thessalonians as an encouragement, a supplication and of a persuasive discourse. This exhortation of pleading with the Thessalonians brings to mind a messenger that seeks the best for others, and has the best on intents.

But the detractors are not spreading a message of Paul seeking the best for the church. They are claiming that Paul’s message is sourced of impurity.

What is Paul speaking of? Is it that they claimed he was in error, that he simply was deceived? This would be a very effective claim since all intuitively knows that nothing pure can come from the impure. If this claim of those in the church stuck, Paul’s gospel becomes polluted, and is not to be trusted.

Attempt to decieve

But the detractors were not done. Paul goes on to to add the defense that his message of the gospel did not spring from any attempt to deceive.

Both of these claims center around error or deception.

The first speaks of Paul as impure, possibly unknowing of his error, teaching what he thinks is true, but because he is impure, the message is impure. His intent may be good, but because he is mistaken, his message is wrong.

This claim is attacking Paul’s attempt to deceive. It is as though Paul knows the truth, but decides to lie to the Thessalonians for some hidden reason.

That simply doesn’t make sense, and as we follow the Lord, we too will come up against inconsistencies of the enemies of the gospel over and over again.

Let me try to explain.

Paul has just suffered in Philippi, having been beaten by the rod, humiliated, and run out of town. He enters Thessalonica, and a crowd erupts in anger against him. He again is rejected by the masses, having to abandon those few that believed his message of a rejected and crucified Savior.

If his message is fueled by deception, where is the gain for this apostle? Why? If he is wrong, or his intent in delivering a message is to deceive, why go through all the trials and troubles he has went through.

The very claim of his being a deceiver, or of being deceived has to pass one sniff test. There are other tests of course, but for this short verse we are addressing the claim of deception in Thessalonians.

What is the sniff test?

Why suffer for a lie?

His detractors are silent in this regard! They wouldn’t suffer for their message. As a matter of fact, their message is compliant with the enemies of the cross. They are towing the line of the world in fighting against God and his Savior! No suffering for them. They have picked their camp!

But Paul knows the truth and in spreading the truth, he is attacked, defamed and tore down by those who fight against God. Paul experiences a constant barrage of pain and trial, yet he stays the course, holding desperately onto the truth, for in a world of detractors dealing in deception, Paul found his only sanity in looking to the way the truth and the life!

It is true for us today also. Look to the truth of Jesus, and detractors will come. But Jesus is the truth. Trust Him only.

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 2:2 But though we had already suffered and been shamefully treated at Philippi, as you know, we had boldness in our God to declare to you the gospel of God in the midst of much conflict.

Last post we spoke of the ongoing attempt of some amongst the Thessalonians regarding the character assassination of Paul, and how this may lead to the weakening, even the loss of faith for those who were so strongly converted and were such a bright light of witness in the region. Paul spoke of his initial entrance into their lives and that his coming was not without results.

In our last post, we considered the recent suffering Paul endured prior to his arrival in town. Paul sought to remind the Thessalonians of his history, as a defense against his detractors who were seeking to spread malicious statements of the apostle, in order to pull church adherents away from his teaching.

In our second post on this verse, let’s move on from Paul’s history of suffering in Philippi, and consider his time amongst the Thessalonians. He has some pointed items to remind them of!

Much Conflict

He speaks of his past suffering, and then has the Thessalonians recall their city’s response. Conflict. Contention. Fighting. Struggle.

The Thessalonian city authorities did not take kindly to Paul and his team entering their city and “upsetting the apple cart”. Thessalonica seems to be of the same general opinion as Philippi, with a similar response of resistance to the gospel that he suffered so recently.

By this time in Paul’s life, he could see the handwriting on the wall. More suffering, upheaval, conflict.

By this time, Paul should have tempered his message, guarding his communication to those most offended by the cross.

Though the Philippi experience was about to erupt in Paul’s face again in this little city, he did not hold back. The fear of suffering did not hold on to Paul’s heart or mind, but he spoke boldly.

Let’s remember that Paul’s detractors, those seeking to pull the Thessalonians from Paul’s teaching, are claiming he has impure motives for the church, that he is a liar and cheat, one who is seeking his own advancement.

Consider this claim of evil deception on the part of Paul, as he speaks of his history with both Philippi and Thessalonica.

Liars lie for self advancement.

What personal advancement did Paul gain, other than broken ribs, lacerations, severe bruising, continual pain, and walking away from public humiliation?

Liars lie to escape suffering.

Again, he endured suffering, even to the point of willing to take the suffering though it was inflicted illegally. Consider Paul’s possible motivation for accepting the beating – See Conditional Security – Philippians 1:3-11

Liars lie to gain a reward.

What reward has Paul received? Where is the gain?

Liars lie out of fear.

Here, we refer to Paul’s manner of speaking in the very passage we are in today. He spoke boldly. Freely. He spoke without considering the past or the possible outcome of his message on his own person.

This witness the Thessalonians heard and saw, for he spoke his message freely and continually though the city rose up against him. The Thessalonians knew this and needed to be reminded of his manner of life.

To speak freely is a rare commodity in today’s world. The atmosphere of restricting speech is choking the church. and I for one admit to succumbing to this environment of fear.

Let us look to the Lord for the boldness we need. A boldness that only comes from the Lord. For Paul clearly states that his boldness was “in our God”.

May God have mercy on our souls for being so timid, and may we ask Him for strength in the midst of our trials that may come!

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 2:2 But though we had already suffered and been shamefully treated at Philippi, as you know, we had boldness in our God to declare to you the gospel of God in the midst of much conflict.

Last post we spoke of the ongoing attempt of some amongst the Thessalonians regarding the character assassination of Paul, and how this may lead to the weakening, even the loss of faith for those who were so strongly converted and were such a bright light of witness in the region. Paul spoke of his initial entrance into their lives and that his coming was not without results.

1 Thessalonians 2:1 …our coming to you was not in vain

In chapter two, Paul depends on the memory of these Thessalonians as compared to what others are saying in his absence. Paul’s detractors, in their efforts to draw away converts, had to sow doubt in the Thessalonians mind about who Paul “truly” was.

So, for the Thessalonians sake, and as a defense against the mud being slung, he calls them to remember his actions before them, and of the history of his ministry.

Shamefully Treated

Paul has suffered and been shamefully treated prior to his arrival in Thessalonica. Lets recall what happened 90 miles down the road in a little town called Philippi.

Acts 16:23-24

And when they had inflicted many blows upon them, they threw them into prison, ordering the jailer to keep them safely.  Having received this order, he put them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in the stocks.

The “many blows” referred to by Luke is a Roman beating, not the flogging with a whip that many may think is referred to. That doesn’t necessarily make it much better.

To be beaten with rods is to be publicly stripped of their clothing, inflicting humiliation on the victims. But that is merely the beginning. The professional Roman torturers, the lictors, were skilled in both beatings and scourging, but when under Roman authority without Jewish influence, there was no restriction as to the number of beating that could be inflicted. No limit as the “40 less one” rule that dominated the scourging in Israel.

I have not found the specific material used for Paul’s beatings, for the rods used could be from a variety of trees, such as elm, red wood, vine wood, hazel or willow. There is some history that rods were also made of iron or lead.

So with such a variation of materials, we can let our imagination run wild. But there was another form of rod that may have been used. A rod often called a “scorpion” may have been used, a rod that was knotty, even of a prickly structure. These “scorpions” were hardened woods with the added effect of sharp piercings or cutting edges on the rod.

Nevertheless, with no limitations and with such vicious weapons, the humiliation of publicly stripping the victim was simply the beginning.

And what was the intent of this torture? To inflict the will of the authorities on the victim.

And what was this will of the authorities in Paul and Silas’ case? The claim was disturbance of the city, and teaching unlawful customs.

Acts 16:20 And when they had brought them to the magistrates, they said, “These men are Jews, and they are disturbing our city.
Acts 16:21 They advocate customs that are not lawful for us as Romans to accept or practice.”

Paul preached Jesus and the Philippians disguised their hatred with civic concerns. How socially acceptable.

This short study on the beating Paul endured is to remind my reader that Paul suffered under the hand of authorities, with fresh wounds being carried into Thessalonica. He suffered these beatings and kept preaching.

Who does that? Where is the personal gain, the “best life now” attitude that would allow Paul’s detractor a basis to stand on? The Thessalonians were not dependent on simply word of mouth regarding the treatment he succumbed to in Philippi. His beating left marks, and his partners must have recalled the humiliation the apostles endured.

Paul looked to the Thessalonians to remember his past, and the witness of his suffering as he was amongst them.

His witness speak to us today, for he mimicked the Master in providing for us an example of living for others, of suffering and maintaining a life dedicated to others.

There is no effective argument against that type of love for others!

May we exercise this life as we follow the Master.

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 2:1 For you yourselves know, brothers, that our coming to you was not in vain.

We have completed the first chapter and discussed the faith of the Thessalonians, and the impact the apostle Paul and his team had on the small Jewish community.

They entered the city, preached for three Saturdays in the synagogue, caused a riot, got ran out of town and left behind a small group of people who trusted the message and had little personal witness other than seeing their apostle stand up to the crowds and not back down for the sake of giving up the truth.

Really quite the perfect storm, in a good way, for a small group of believers to have a short period of time with the apostle, and then to be thrust into the faith, essentially on their own. With no one to tell them they are doing it wrong. With no one telling them it has never been done that way.

In a very real sense, this group had the freedom to follow Jesus without any other influence. Without the Second Baptist Church of Thessalonica down the road acting as a competitive influence, or seeking to draw others into a second group.

That first few weeks/months/years must have been awesome for this small group of believers, knowing the basics and having the recollection of such a bold and brave apostle!

Chapter 2 starts out with Paul speaking of his coming amongst them, of his (or better yet God’s) success in bringing them to a truthful confession of faith.

He introduces the topic of vanity in this verse. My first impression when I think of this word is of makeup and fashion, of image and status, of representation and not reality. It may be a bit more harsh than that! If my understanding is correct, vanity in this verse speaks of an emptiness, a hollowed out condition, of a destitute existence, without any lasting fruit.

Maybe I am not so far off in my thinking. After all, is not makeup and fashion, image and status simply a statement of vanity, not reflecting the inner man, but a covering over, creating an appearance that is not true, focusing on the outer and not the inner. Character is not elevated if coverings and deception run rampant in the life.

But I digress. Forgive me my rant!

Paul, when he speaks of vanity, he is speaking of the effect his preaching had on these folks. They appeared committed to the message.

Vanity

Paul speaks of vanity in relation to a number of other congregations. He speaks of the emptiness of the Corinthian’s faith if the resurrection is not true.

Why have faith if He didn’t rise from the dead? The whole message Paul preached, that these folks claimed to believe is empty if based on a lie. The faith is void and

1 Corinthians 15:2 ESV – and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you–unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:14 ESV – And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.

In the book of Galatians, he speaks as though the continuance of their faith in his message would show that his efforts were not in vain. He sought that he had a lasting effect on those who initially trusted in the true message of the Messiah.

Galatians 2:2 ESV – I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain.
Galatians 4:11 ESV – I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

He speaks to a church that is sliding into legalism as though they were apostatizing. My friends, he is speaking to those who were accepting the alternate message, the message of the Judaizers, that in following their message, the gospel faith they initially entered would be abandoned. His work would have been in vain.

Finally, he brings up the topic of vanity with his church in Phillippi.

Philippians 2:16 ESV – holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain.

To speak to his church in Philippi as he does in this verse must have been exhilarating, realizing his work was effective in their lives, that the faith was evident in their holding fast to the truth of the gospel. Continuance. Faithfulness. Consistency. If the believers life is focused in the life in the Messiah, it will be fully evident. Rules, regulations, social influence, financial gain, power, intimidation or any other idol is constantly fought off, by a commitment to the Messiah and His message.

I am afraid he may be thinking this success may not last if these believers in Thessalonica continue to listen to those who would seek to pull them away. A little further on in our letter, we find Paul referring to his labor possibly being in vain, that all his efforts and sacrifice would be for nothing.

1 Thessalonians 3:5 ESV – For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain.

In our subject verse, verse 1, we see Paul was appealing to their very own memory when he speaks of his initial visit, and of the apparent impact he had on them. He is beginning to bring to their thinking the history these folks have experienced in the faith, and with their apostle.

But hold up now. All of chapter one spoke of the success of Paul’s ministry amongst them, how they were the talk of the region, how they were faithful and growing. How can Paul be saying of their faith being in vain when he just spoke so highly of them?

I have been assuming that Paul was speaking of their faith as a result of his initial efforts, but it seems evident that as we venture into this second chapter, Paul feels he has to defend his character, that he needs to remind the Thessalonians not of his initial impact, which he did in the first chapter, but of the importance of his character for the sake of their continuing in the faith.

A very popular way for the enemy to attack the faith is to attack the one who delivered the message. Character assassination is very effective in quelling the fruit of the message. Paul understands this and is writing this next portion of the book as a reminder of his character in order for their faith to be strong. He is not naïve in the enemies methods of destruction.

Two final thoughts.

Defend the character of those who evangelize. Do not openly defame a believer’s character, but seek to protect, to assist, to encourage those who serve in the ministry of evangelizing the lost. Don’t fall into character assassination through gossip or complaining, grumbling and whining about the character of those who serve the Master. In doing so, we may fall into a category of people we would not normally associate with.

Also as believers, who share the gospel with others, our lives matter in the quiet times, where our own character is being forged, when we are in front of the Master and no one is around.

This is a great challenge. May we look to Him for strength!

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

This letter from Paul made the chapter breakout relatively easy for that priest or scribe back in the 13th century that determined the chapters in the Word, For this book, each chapter break ends with a reference to the coming of Christ.

Our first chapter closes with the Thessalonians waiting for the Son of God to come from heaven. Paul can not resist the opportunity to speak of the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, and that one of the ministries of Jesus is the deliverance from wrath that was to come.

Jesus is the Great deliverer and it matter’s not the specifics of the trial the believer is in, for the Lord is able to deliver those not deserving His care – which is all of us!

So as we spend a few minutes considering the wrath to come for these believers, let us not get too distracted from our own coming wrath. He is a delivering Savior, yet for those Thessalonians, as well as for us, wrath was coming.

Now how to understand that is the question in my mind. Is the wrath to come, for both them and us, the terrors of eternal damnation? Is that how the Thessalonians would have understood this?

Maybe, for Paul speaks of eternal destruction in his next letter to this church.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Maybe.

Maybe not.

Let us leave a discussion on these verses in 2 Thessalonians for another day, and allow for our current understanding to stand. Paul may be speaking of eternal damnation in the fires of hell for ever and ever.

Jesus can deliver us from this destiny, and has delivered believers by His blood, by His death and by His suffering. He is the Great Deliverer.

But let us also consider that the “wrath to come” may present itself in a more immediate context for these Thessalonians.

Let’s remember – Paul found these saints in a synagogue. They were not heathen Canadians who were Biblically illiterate (as I was at my conversion!) Consider that for the Jewish faithful that followed after Paul, the background these believers had was of Moses, Isaiah and Jeremiah, steeped in the Old Testament imagery of the prophets.

Granted, to understand the wrath to come is more complicated than I first considered.

Sometimes it looks like it was in the future for those who first heard the declaration. Consider Jeremiah’s audience. He directed his pronouncement of God’s wrath on the very people of His nation, for they were about to experience the armies of Babylon coming into their nation, their city and their Temple, completely decimating the people of God.

Jeremiah 7:16, 17, 20

As for you, do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with me, for I will not hear you.
Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, my anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place, upon man and beast, upon the trees of the field and the fruit of the ground; it will burn and not be quenched.”

In hind sight, it is obvious that Jeremiah was speaking of Babylon invading Israel, but he described as the wrath of God on His people.

Jesus used the same phrase when He spoke to the Pharisees and Sadducees in the gospels. Might He have been referring to the Romans coming to the nation of Israel, as the Babylonians had previously. After all, it was less than a generation later that these men who heard Jesus may have witnessed the very wrath coming on them in the form of the Roman legions!

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luke 3:7 He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Yet I spoke earlier of the wrath as being somewhat complicated, at least for an ol’ fool like me. What do you do when Jesus speaks the following?

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Every person on earth has the wrath of God remaining on him or her, until they believe in Jesus and follow! How might the Thessalonians have understood this wrath? An experience of warring nations on a people, causing death, destruction, famine and desolation? Might they consider it as modern believers may understand it, as a pit of fire, with demons and darkness, suffering excruciating pain for ever and ever?

All of this is debatable, but for me, it is weariness and worry, a seemingly endless debate that in the end does not motivate the believer effectively to the glory of God. Debates and discussions on the eternal state have their place, but not to the exclusion on the most important matter!

It is Jesus who delivers us. He is the Deliverer. He delivers from death, from destruction, from the grave and from our own foolishness.

For this ol’ fool, I am thankful that whatever the wrath might be that is coming, that had come, that is on us, or that may touch us, it is Jesus who is faithful to His own nature, to being a Delivering God, to being a Saving Messiah.

May His Name be praised and lifted up.

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,

Who are “they”?

As I mentioned in my last rambling, I think Paul may have spoke of both believers (regarding the Word of the Lord) and unbelievers (regarding the Faith of the Saints). If my thinking is correct, who might Paul be referring to when he speaks of “they themselves”? Am I getting lost in my pronouns!

Whoever is doing the reporting, “they” understood the impact Paul and his cohorts had on the Thessalonians, or more accurately, the reception the Thessalonians gave Paul and his gang.

What type of reception did you ask?

Well, the city did not show it’s best face to these visitors, but for a few of the citizens, they openly accepted these strangers with good news, exhibited a willingness to hear and listen, and an openness to be influenced by men that laid it on the line for others. They saw men speaking of a risen Savior, being in the middle of a riot erupting with some jealous Jews, eventually having their synagogue ruler dragged before the court, with these apostles run out of town.

The reception of those few Thessalonians resulted in conversion to a whole new life. They were willing to hear a message, they watched the messengers and they made a choice. People were hearing about it, and some of “them” were reporting about it!

And what were “they” reporting?

Two pieces of news!

turned to God from idols

Turning.

I want to speak of this word as defining repentance, and it might very well speak of that, but the Greek word usually used for repentance, μετάνοια metánoia, is not used here. This word is ἐπιστρέφω epistréphō. Interestingly it is used often of Gentiles becoming believers.

• Acts 9:35
• Acts 9:40 
• Acts 11:21
• Acts 14:15
• Acts 15:19
• Acts 26:18.
• Acts 26:20
• 2 Corinthians 3:16 
• 1 Peter 2:25

Nothing too earth shattering about it’s meaning, for it simply means to turn, or to turn oneself. These folk saw the gospel, heard the gospel and turned to God. This turning included one action with two results. These folks turned to God and these folks turned from idols. This is conversion, and this also informs us of the idol worship involved in those who did not turn.

Is this true for todays citizen of the world? If one you know hasn’t turned to God, is it safe to conclude they are still following after idols? Leave a comment, let me know your thoughts

to serve the living and true God

Many may hear the gospel, and say they believe in God. They say they believe and well enough they may. But the second piece of news being reported on was the commitment the Thessalonians exhibited. They turned to serve the Living and True God.

Let me be blunt. The Christian life is not a warm fuzzy feeling received every 7 days for 15 minutes while the music blares in the auditorium. The Christian life is a life of service, of following and caring for others in His name. At times there are very difficult decisions to be made in following the Master, decisions and actions that cause pain, loneliness, separation from friends and family, in order to follow after the One who walked a path to Golgotha.

To serve the Living and True God is a marker of the man or woman of faith, of one who has truly turned to God from idols.

The Thessalonians had turned even though no promise of an easy life. Pretty impressive. I guess it makes sense that “they” were telling everyone.

Still not sure who “they” are though!

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:8 For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything.

Two messages are being discussed in this verse, as far as I can tell.

The word of the Lord.

This message is dispersed from the Thessalonians to those in Macedonia and Achaia, as Paul mentions. I am tempted to think Paul is referring to the Philippian and Berean churches in Macedonia, and the Corinthian churches in Achaia.

This is wholly my assumption, and I may be placing a limitation not intended – let my reader consider – but is this word of the Lord intended for those who already are in the Body of Christ, those who may have heard of the life these believers were experiencing? How after such a short visit, these believers became imitators and followers of the apostles, and his team?

These Thessalonians were living examples for these nearby congregations, flesh and blood imitators that could be easily witnessed, being placed “on stage” for other churches to see. This is the wonder of the gospel, for though we may have an understanding of walking out our faith, to see others exercise their faith only encourages us, helps us to realize we are not alone, and expands the possibilities in our own life of faith by seeing others work it out in their specific way.

This is not a light subject, for I call to witness my reader, that they along with myself, have been enriched in our lives by being with others who exalt the name of Jesus though in different situations, cultures, societies, and manners.

In our past we have predominantly been in the baptist persuasion of church, but occasionally my wife and I will visit other denominations, even joining one for a period of time. We found aspects of their faith to be challenging, forcing decisions to be made and belief’s to be accepted. More so though, we witnessed those in other denominations honor God and exalt Jesus in ways we never considered.

The Thessalonians were examples for the nearby churches. Whether examples to provide encouragement, or witnesses of a lifestyle that rebukes the viewing church, these men and women were examples for the regional body beyond their own local group.

your faith in God

The Word of the Lord may have been directed to the churches in the region, as an example of true imitators of the apostles, and as a good reflection of the Spirit of God working in a group of believers. The Word of the Lord, I think was a ministry to the faithful.

The Thessalonians also had a message for those outside of the faith. For those outside of the faith, these men and women had a faith that was going forth everywhere.

Consider there was no internet, telephone, telegraph, television, radio, or any other method of mass communication. The Thessalonians had one ace in the hole though. They were on a trade route.

Imagine these men and women, in their day to day jobs, speaking of a Risen Savior, of the Rabbi who had been crucified unjustly, of a Prophet who spoke words of radical upheaval for the people of God. Those travelers and business associates these believers came into contact with, experienced these believers faith in God, not only in their message, but I dare say in their changed lives, giving force to their message.

These visitors, travelers, business associates and foreigners were in contact with gospel people. Though these Thessalonians may have never left the city in their lives, the faith they lived travelled with those they came into contact with.

By way of application, let us not be discouraged if we spend our days faithful in a church, never travelling to the far flung mission field. If you live your faith, not just in the church environment, but in the Monday through Saturday world, your example of faith will travel.

True faith travels.

Consider the number of people in one week that you know and deal with that is outside of your local area. After a short time of reflection, it becomes apparent that our reach may be far greater than we first thought.

Be encouraged my friend, and live your faith in front of those you rub shoulders with, whether they be on the internet, though the telephone, even by way of telegraph…..

You get my point? Live your faith. Faith will travel.

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:7 so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia.

Verse 7 speaks of the consequence of the actions described in verse 5 and 6, that the Thessalonians were presented the gospel and became imitators of the men who presented this gospel to them. We addressed the term “imitator” in an earlier posting, but Paul uses another term, somewhat related to imitator.

To be an imitator is to follow one as a model, a reference to finding and following a guide, having a goal to copy in order to become like that person. To imitate is to follow someone in their mannerisms, character, desires, ethics, sufferings and thoughts.

To be an example is to be that which others may imitate. Paul is beginning to teach on the very same principle he instructed Timothy of years later.

2 Timothy 2:2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also.

Although Paul is speaking to the church as a whole, in that their body life was a fantastic example for other churches to imitate, the process of multiplication in the same in body life as well in personal discipleship. Our lives either impact the church in a positive way, as the Thessalonian church did according to Paul, or our lives impact the church negatively.

One church that did not have the full endorsement of the apostle was the Corinthian church. His non-commendation is expressed throughout the first epistle, but man be clearly noted in chapter 11.

1 Corinthians 11:17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse.
1 Corinthians 11:22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

Even though the apostle Paul stayed with the Corinthians for much longer than he did with the Thessalonians, his presence and manner of life did not seem to “stick” with the metropolitan Corinthians.

Note that in the epistle/letter to the Corinthians, the internal difficulties were addressed directly with the church. As my momma used to say, “don’t be showing everyone your dirty laundry!” Paul addressed the issues of the Corinthian church, with the Corinthian church. We have the privilege of reading this letter of holy writ, but it seems the intent of Paul was to be direct with the church and not enter into a public discourse “showing everyone the Corinthians dirty laundry”.

Not so with the Thessalonians. Paul spoke of them as examples to the churches in Macedonia and Achaia, (which coincidentally contained a church named Corinth.) These believers molded themselves to be such imitators that they became examples for others to follow. And Paul told everybody!

This is a very high compliment from the apostle to a small church he had not been able to return to. The word was getting out that the Thessalonian’s caught the life Paul exhibited, and the gospel he proclaimed.

The church was alive and was providing proof of that life, in the midst of much affliction!

Might the affliction the Thessalonians accepted be the missing element in the church of Corinth? I will let my reader consider the difference and make up their own mind.

No matter, the Thessalonians were examples, believers who could be watched by other churches as they lived their lives, providing an example to be imitated, as others sought to follow the Lord.

A very worthy model to imitate!

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:6 And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit,

Our verse today speaks of the response of a portion of the Thessalonian populace had to the love of God becoming evident to them.

The result of a rag tag group of men, tent makers and such, entering into a synagogue and speaking of a Rabbi that rose from the dead. The began to imitate them.

To imitate. The Greek used in this verse (and the following) is μιμητής mimētḗs. In only one of the six times the apostles used this exhortation, was the subject of imitation only God.

1 Corinthians 4:16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me.
1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.
1 Thessalonians 2:14 ESV – For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews,
Hebrews 6:12 ESV – so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Five of the six times saints were directed to imitate, the subject were saints or apostles. This is illuminating, for we often hear the battle cry “I only follow Jesus”, or “I only trust and follow God”. The Word is rife with commands, exhortations and instruction that we are to follow God and not man, and yet we see the apostles exhort believers, or at least describe believers as those who imitate, or follow them.

This is quite audacious.

Should we expect the same today? Are there men and women that follow so closely that we could (or should) see them as worthy of following in their shadows, imitate a lifestyle that would honor God.

That is a big question, and one that I believe Paul provides additional guidance on for the modern saint.

Let’s track with what Paul is saying.

They followed / imitated Paul in much affliction. These folks didn’t see a man teaching on the “Best Life Now” and then decided they wanted immediate gratification, or a man teaching they had influence over God, that they could demand things from an all powerful God to splurge on they own self interests.

They followed in the midst of affliction.

Now, the term affliction is a very interesting word. When I first tripped over this word in my studies years back, I couldn’t help but speak it out load. θλῖψις thlîpsis. It is a rare word to have the “thl” sound, and I couldn’t help myself from saying out loud as I walked about. But enough of my idiosyncracies!

Thlîpsis speaks of pressure. Oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits and of a pressing together.

It is a force outside of our lives that is causing discomfort, pain and stress. It is not stress. Let me, for a short moment, try to explain the difference, from a strictly physical point of view.

Consider an inanimate object, sitting on a table. At one point, a large mass is laid on this object. This mass is a foreign object that is affecting the object. The effect of this mass on the object is the pressure we speak of. The reaction of the object to this mass is what we define as stress (or strain, but that is another topic). Stress may be developed as a reaction of the object to the mass being applied to the object.

Say the object is a brick and the mass is a feather. Internal within the brick a very minor stress is developed. Let’s go the opposite extreme for the sake of ridiculousness. Say the object is a marshmallow, and the mass is a concrete block. After massive deformation, and due to no internal strength in the marshmallow, we can conclude that the internal strength of the marshmallow is insignificant. Deformation was the reaction to the pressure applied to the marshmallow, giving us evidence of the internal strength of the marshmallow.

So let’s recap. These folks followed Paul, in the midst of pressure, showing evidence of an internal strength that was able to withstand being “deformed” back to their previous lifestyle. The pressure may have become quite intense, but the strength within the believers was equal to the task.

My question to you, my dear reader, is what was that inner strength? The passage speaks of the inner strength, and I would suggest Paul makes it clearly evident of the inner strength these folks relied upon.

Note that Paul speaks of these believers receiving affliction, accepting pressure with the joy of the Holy Spirit. He doesn’t describe their internal strength as being a moral fortitude, a righteous anger, or a holy determination. The strength these folks had received was joy. Joy of the Holy Spirit.

These believers seem to have resisted the forces being applied to their lives by the joy of the Holy Spirit. Make no mistake, the forces applied to these believers intended to deform these new believers into a “shape” they desired, a shape that was comfortable and malleable, usable for those who did not believe.

The joy of the Holy Spirit provided these men and women the strength to resist the deformation the world wanted!

Now, back to the big question about who to imitate.

Do you know someone in your life who is following in the midst of affliction, expressing the sacrificial love of God, even to those who despise and hate him or her. They may be doing something right, and he may be a great example to imitate.

Those who tickle your ears with promises of prosperity, success, health and wealth. They may be the ones who demand your loyalty, but it may be wise to consider why you should follow them as opposed to any other false teacher.

It seems we as believers have two choices. Either we follow those who provide (empty) promises or those who warn of earthly pressures.

• Which preacher appeals to you?
• What message are you looking for?
• Where do you find inner strength?

What pressure are you experiencing, in which the joy of the Holy Spirit is providing strength to resist deformation?

Or have you listened to that popular message, allowing deformation as an acceptable reaction to trials or troubles?

Nehemiah 8:10 …And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.”

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

In our last posting, I intentionally did not address the last sentence in the verse, since I anticipate it to carry a message worthy of it’s own consideration.

1 Thessalonians 1:5B …You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

At first glance, Paul seems to divert from his message of the Thessalonians new life, by speaking of his teams behavior among them.

I am not convinced this is a diversion, for he will refer to his witness among them a number of times in the letter, giving weight to the importance of the saint having not only a verbal message, but a life witness that speaks the same.

In our very next verse, Paul speaks of the impact of his physical witness, of his actions, and not simply agreeing to facts, precious as they are.

1 Thessalonians 1:6 And you became imitators of us and of the Lord….

Notice that Paul spoke of imitation, not simply agreeing with him and his team. It wasn’t as if they had a debate and some in the audience gave mental assent to the argument provided. They imitated the apostle and those of his team. This implies very strongly that these folks had watched the apostolic team in their actions, had interacted with them in their decision making process, had watched them work and toil as they stayed in the city, and had been rejected by the populace.

Next chapter, Paul again speaks of sharing his life with them, and not simply his mental and spiritual understanding of the mysteries of God. He emphasizes his life with them.

1 Thessalonians 2:8 So, being affectionately desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God but also our own selves, because you had become very dear to us.

Paul again raises the topic of the importance of sharing the lives of the team with those they ministered to. Paul and his team were living out the gospel message, and the motivation of love was driving them to an open expression of life to the Thessalonians.

To be painfully honest, I can not imagine this environment was a typical church service type of situation, where Paul got up in front of the audience, provided a monologue of doctrine, and then went home until Wednesday night prayer meeting. In my mind’s eye, I can imagine a dialogue type of environment, where Paul spoke of personal experiences of the truth of the gospel directing his actions, with the resultant impacts, successes and disappointments being shared with those in his presence. He was with them, and seemingly an open book for them to read!

1 Thessalonians 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more.

Paul pleads with the Thessalonians to remember their witness amongst them, that they walk as the apostle and his team walked, (not just thought as the apostles team thought), and to continue to please God.

This witness of Paul, in combination with the preaching of the Word, impacted these Thessalonians to the point where they repented of their ways, turned to Christ and pleased God.

Remember, Paul was amongst them for less than 21 days, and they saw enough to be convinced of the message, turning from idols and growing into Christians.

Truly amazing!

Who was your “Paul”? Did you have someone you could watch live the Christian life? Someone who did more than provide a message, a critical message, but also backed that message up with their own life, a sacrifice for others?

How about your life? Is it reflective of the Master, and is there enough there to make a difference in someone else, someone who has just heard and believed the good news of Jesus?

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

In our last verse we spoke of the election of the Thessalonians, and of my refocused understanding of that particular verse. As a reminder, it is all about the love of God, not the choosing of us, whatever that may mean to my reader.

It is the love of God that is so importance for us to remember!

In verse 5, Paul will remind the saints of Thessalonica why he makes such a claim as in verse 5.

Why Can Paul Say this

Paul made a bold claim in verse 5, speaking of God choosing the Thessalonians, and more importantly of the love of God these saints (and all saints!) have possessed in their lives.

He now enters into a short passage that provides for us the reason he makes such a claim of their lives being the recipients of the love of God.

Word

Paul, with his team came into the town of Thessalonica, with a message. That message was delivered verbally, to all the people hearing them, through a teaching that all in the audience heard. Yet for these called out people, for these chosen folks, that message became a message of life. They recognized truth and it became a message to be trusted.

Think of that. Vibrations from the apostles throat entered into the audience’s ears, a series of ideas were offered to those who listened, and some of those listening acknowledged the truth of the message.

The word, or the message delivered to these folks became a fact that they accepted. It was not merely a claim that was developed and offered without consideration, but the message became factual for them, and for those who accepted it, it was the foundational factual truth of the life they now lived in.

Now some may say that their choice simply became the Thessalonian’s truth, as the common argument in todays culture. You know how those who reject the gospel will excuse their position. “If it works for you that is great”, or “everyone has their personal truth.”

Absolute truth exists. The grave is empty. Those who recognize this truth make it their truth, but not in the manner of denigrating this message to a personal preference. The gospel is factual, and these people recognized it and “joined the party!”

Power

For the message came to these people, and they recognized the truth of a resurrected man who is God Almighty. Upon this realization, the power of God was unleashed in their lives. The facts became energized. The message and the power were delivered simultaneously.

It is very interesting that the word “power” in this Greek term δύναμις dýnamis speaks of inherent power, power that resides in itself, that the nature of the gospel exerts authority, the message has power resident within it.

Paul is speaking of the Word being accepted by the hearer, and at the same time of the power resident in the message impacting the audience.

As you may know, I sometimes chase rabbits, but for this post I will simply offer a thought experiment. Did the power resident in the gospel impact those who rejected it? We know it did with the saints!

Holy Spirit

Here is the person of the message and the power.

A short witness of my history regarding the Spirit of God. Many years ago, as I was struggling with understanding the message of the charismatic movement, a dear brother once quipped that the Holy Spirit is the silent member of the Trinity. By saying this he was referring to the relative number of time the Word of God speaks of the Holy Spirit being referred to in the Word. He did not intend to communicate, as far as I understood, that the Holy Spirit did not communicate to God’s people. It was just that the communication the Spirit of God provided was to glorify Jesus, not Himself.

Consider

John 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

As I have sought to understand and follow Jesus, many distractions and tripping opportunities have been provided to me. When the Spirit of God reminds me of Jesus and His life, His teaching, His authority, His resurrection, His glory and His love, I am confident in the message is from the Spirit of God. There are many who seek a following, both man and spirit, but it is the Spirit of God that provides the life and teaching of Jesus in a living way to believers as they seek to honor God.

It is truly an amazing life to live, a life that is not dependent on me being good, but on listening and accepting the truth of His goodness, and out of a heart of thankfulness and wonder worshipping such a great Messiah.

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

He will change us as we look to Him!

It is a common understanding that what/who we worship is what type of people we eventually become. For the believer, the Spirit of God provides us the day to day message of the Messiah, of His worthiness and His ministry in our lives. To worship the Living God is to become more and more like Him in His loving, self sacrificing nature, of His commitment to truth, for He is the Truth, and of His resurrecting power that is the core of our faith.

Much Assurance

Assurance. First off, may I suggest that assurance and security are two different concepts.

Security, specifically eternal security in relation to our faith is a topic that I have discussed on this blog numerous times since 2019. For a sampling of passages I have addressed, consider Conditional Security – Passage List.

Regarding assurance, may I suggest that assurance in a continuing work of the Spirit. February 19th of 1981, as I bowed my knee and confessed my sin, The Spirit of God provided me assurance of salvation by the Risen Lord. Surety of salvation was real, to the point I was willing to enter a building on fire to help someone if trapped. (If I haven’t told the story, and any are interested, let me know.)

As I have faltered and failed through my walk with Him, my assurance ebbed and flowed also. As I focused on my own abilities, needs, wants and desires, I found my assurance waned also. As I refocused on the Messiah, and centered on Him, I found my assurance being reestablished based on His abilities and not my own.

Assurance is an obedience issue. On the other hand, security, (that is eternal security), may sometimes become for the believer a crutch to depend on, understanding that the initial faith in the Messiah is a binding contract between God and the “believer”. Eternal Security may even an opportunity to avoid the Word of the Savior, thinking that refusal of obeying will only cost a crown in heaven and not the entrance to it.

My friend, if you are of the persuasion of the OSAS teaching, that is of the Once Saved Always Saved thinking, be sure you test it, as the apostle directs us later in this letter.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.

Do not, as I have in my previous experience, depend a select number of verses without considering the opposing view. Be diligent in your study, and face difficult passages that will challenge your current thinking. Our faith is a life of repentance, not only in moral issues, but also in our understanding of the ways of God.

Nevertheless, in each of our understandings of the message of the gospel, we are to look to Him for all things, encourage those we come in contact with, and exhort those who are claiming a faith they are not living.

He is the One we are to look to and it is from the Spirit of God that we will receive the direction we so desperately need to honor the Father!

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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,

Election. To be chosen.

There is a large portion of the Christian body that focuses on this term and develops a logical construction of the process of salvation with the help of this term.

I have spent much of my time as a believer deep in this teaching, defending the doctrine, all in an effort to promote the faith, to maintain the true gospel and to provide comfort and encouragement to those who have not found the truth.

In this teaching called Calvinism, I emphasized the need to believe the logical construction of the five points of Calvinism, in order to provide an eternal security to the believer. If you have been with me for any period of time, you will have come to know that this teaching has been found wanting in my mind and heart as I have aged, and that security in Jesus is found in the person of God and not a contract that I depended on 40 some odd years ago.

Yes I depended on that night in 1981 as my key to heaven, instead of the Living Christ!

The verse we are addressing this morning is one of seven verses that use the term “chosen” ἐκλογή eklogḗ. The full list of this specific word follows.

• Acts 9:15
• Romans 9:11
• Romans 11:5
• Romans 11:7
• Romans 11:28
• 1 Thessalonians 1:4
• 2 Peter 1:10

In our verse today, it is apparent that the evidence of the choosing by God of these Thessalonians is described in the next verse, and we shall develop that thought in our next post. For the verse today, let us consider the motivation of God in His choosing the Thessalonians at the time of Paul’s visit.

Loved by God

In this verse we have one verb. Simple. One action word by which Paul is trying to communicate to these people a message of comfort and encouragement. The verb is not “to choose” or “chosen”, but beloved.

This is the heart of the verse, and here our focus should rightly settle. As we get into our next verse, Paul will indicate that these people understood the love of God, and that Paul reminded them of God’s choosing of them by the evidence of their actions.

I do not understand Paul to be teaching an us / them scenario, in which he calls out believers as more special, or better than those who did not believe. He simply reminds them of the love of God they experienced, and of the proof of this through the actions they took.

Consider – Might there be some interplay between the love of God and the decisions/actions these believers entered into that exhibited the truth of their faith to Paul? Is Paul letting them know that based on the power of the Spirit in their lives and their steel convictions, it is evident they are children of God.

My friends, as I ventured into the logical reasonings of Calvinism – and it is logical! , I found I fell into a fatalism, a thinking (rightly or wrongly – I cannot tell) that caused a hardening in my heart, an indifference to those outside the faith.

In my focusing on my election, I fell into the rut of thinking “They weren’t chosen but I was”. Whatever evangelistic tone in my life morphed into a analytical defense of a teaching that created an us/them thinking. Are we to discern truth by the effect it has on our lives? I would argue that any teaching that hardens us to others is not the spirit of the Friend of Sinners!

This is my testimony, and I do not claim it to be anything other than my testimony, but to follow after the logical reasoning that in time past God chose me to be saved created questions I couldn’t grapple with, thoughts that limited God and froze me up.

But God loves me, a sinner and rebel that is weak, blind and crippled. He has provided a Savior that constantly provides blessing and gladness in spite of my history, my failings and my self love. His love is to be the Banner over our lives, not a teaching that creates questions, provides mysteries and borrows from a logical thought process of the ancients.

As mentioned above, I have walked away from a contractual perspective of Christianity, finding that security may be best, and I believe, only be found in the person of the Christ. As the believer seeks to follow the Messiah, we find that He provides the comfort, encouragement, strength, challenge and guidance for a daily walk.

To know Him and to follow Him is to have and gain an internal security that settles in the heart, as opposed to an eternal security based on a decision in some past point in time.

The decision to trust Christ is the start of a continual life adventure that is full of challenge, rife with repentance, and with abounding comfort and He ministers to His people.

He is so good. He loves us! Spend your day focusing on the great love of God, and His continued blessing in your life.

May God be honored in our lives by our remembering His great love to us!

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let’s remember that this letter to the Thessalonians is the first of Paul’s many letters to churches and individuals that have become identified as Scripture.

In his career as an apostle, Paul would end up writing at least 13 books of the 27 in the New Testament.

Those books would be Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. I did not add Hebrews to the list as there is disagreement over the author of Hebrews!

I mention this fact due to the multiple times we will trip over seed thoughts of Paul’s in relation to the Christian life, church truths, end time discussions and general direction for the believer in this letter to the fledgling church.

Such is the case in this verse. The triad of Christian virtues is laid out for us in this verse.

Faith love and hope. It turns out that this was a very present theme on Paul’s mind and heart as he aged through the Christian life. Here we find the seed thought in 1 Thessalonians – twice, for he speaks of this again in 1 Thessalonians 5:8 but it is expanded for us in 1 Corinthians.

He doesn’t provide the expansion as he does in 1 Corinthians, but let us consider each on thier own.

Work of Faith

Faith without works is dead. James would coin that phrase for the church to be challenged by years later as he wrote his letter, but the truth for our ears was spoken by the apostle, the apostle of grace, the same apostle who wrote that by grace we are saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.

We often consider faith to be an internal gift from God, and for many we gravitate to verses such as Romans 3:28 to support the sense that faith is apart from works, as spoken by the same apostle Paul.

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

How are we to relieve the tension between faith apart from works, and the work of faith?

Consider that the work of faith springs from a faith that was from works. The order is critical, and the work of faith is simply the response of the believer to the tremendous grace Jesus Christ has offered us.

To those who believe not, but are considering following the Master, a word of note. If you truly believe, if you truly repent and believe, you will receive life, an amazing life, and from that life you will desire to know Him first, and to serve Him always. The natural outcome of knowing His will be to produce a work of faith as the Thessalonians did.

LAbor of Love

Again, Paul settles on the concept of work, or labor. A different word here though. As the word “work” in our previous clause was the Greek word ἔργον érgon, meaning to toil or to work, our verb “labor” is κόπος kópos, and it brings into the message the idea of intense labor combined with trouble, or even in combination with a beating, or the voluntary acceptance of trials and pain in the work.

Will not love drive you beyond the efforts your would expend for a simple paycheck, even for a distant friend? To Labor is to push yourself, sacrifice your time, treasure and talent for the sake of someone else, maybe even an enemy. This is so reminiscent of the Master Himself, for He labored for us.

Steadfastness of hope

As I lay in bed this morning, my mind wandered onto this verse and prior studies I ventured into years back. For you see, this steadfastness is a word I have looked at previously and found it to be fascinating.

For those who are interested in the concept of patience and endurance, I spent a period of time considering the concept and its importance in the Christian life in an 8 part series titled Patience. The first in the series is Patience – A Component of Hope

The term is our verse is ὑπομονή hupŏmŏnē, and speaks of a cheerful endurance, a “stick to itiveness” that is not dismayed by trials or tribulations. The term literally means to “remain under”, for the Greek word is made up of “hypo”, meaning under, and “meno”, meaning to remain. To remain under. When pressure becomes intolerable, remain under. When other’s walk away from the faith, remain under. When all the world is yelling at you to concede, or to give up, remain under. Be patient. Endure. Stay the course.

Though I spoke of a “stick to itiveness” above, this characteristic we are to exercise has an object of motivation. It is not simply a “grind your teeth and bear it” type of mentality, a state of stubbornness, but a standing of hope, or of expectation. It isn’t to be fueled by a stubborn heart, a heart that refuses to move out of shear pride.

This abiding under pressures or trials is to be maintained because of the One who led the way. He has endured, “stayed under” the suffering of the cross, for the joy that was set before Him.

Hebrews 12:2-3 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

Is not the hope we have that we will experience joy in the future. Our hope is the amazing future ahead, to know Him better, to be with Him in the future. This hope is the anchor that motivates us to “stay under” to remain for His sake.

May the Lord give us the heart of expectation, that we may stand our ground with joy, to “stay under the pressure” and be faithful unto death.

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:2 We give thanks to God always for all of you, constantly mentioning you in our prayers,

We ended our last verse with grace and peace being conferred onto the church in Thessalonica. This verse is the expression of an Apostles heart to God for the fledgling church he had to leave behind.

Pauls second missionary journey, in which he was instrumental in the birth of this church, was between 49 & 51 AD. His second journey took him through the following cities, planting the life of Christ wherever he could.

• Antioch
• Syria
• Cilicia
• Derbe
• Lystra
• Phrygia
• Galatia
• Troas
• Phillipi
• Samothrace
• Neopolis
• Amphipolis
• Thessalonica – 15 days
• Berea
• Athens
• Corinth – 18 months
• Ephesus
• Caesarea
• Antioch

I provide this list to indicate that during the second missionary journey of Paul, which lasted less than 4 years, he didn’t get to Thessalonica until possibly the second year, maybe the third year of the trip. Being in Corinth and sending the letter meant that it was very little time between when he left the church and when he wrote to them. Chronologies of Paul’s journey’s suggest less than a year between the planting of the church and the first letter to them.

Paul missed the church of Thessalonica.

Remember the life of an apostle, especially in Corinth, where he labored on his own and preached during the time he wasn’t working. Paul was a man of much energy and with a drive that would not shut off. Corinth was exploding and he may have felt this was the success he missed out on elsewhere. If it had been myself, the tendency would be to focus on the success.

Paul loved the church of Thessalonica.

Paul was thankful To God

It is good to remember that Paul thanked God for the church, and not the church for believing the gospel. This may seem like a “splitting of hairs”, but consider the difference.

To be thankful to God is to find the source of the blessing, the source of the life, the source of the life, to direct thanks to. Yes the church believed, but the Lord is the One to be thankful to for not only the message and the power of the message, but the guidance to the town, the interest of the adherents, and the continued faithfulness of God in leading this church, even as Paul was missing.

Yes it is wise, and right to be thankful to God. To be thankful to our those we rub shoulders with is a blessing, for us and to them, and is not to be discounted. Yet in the final analysis, thankfulness, true thankfulness is to be directed to God.

Paul was thankful For All

Ok. We are to be thankful to God. Got it. Paul says for all. Even that saint that gossips, or is lazy and entitled, those that are fear mongers and busy bodies. Yes our churches are full of these type, and though Paul did not have to face these folk on a daily, or even weekly basis, he was thankful to God for ALL.

As we go through this letter to a church that had up to 12 months of life together in Jesus, Paul brings to the front certain issues that are of concern. He knows there are those who are not pulling their weight, that are going around spreading gossip, or spreading false hope. Problems, but he will get to the granularity of the church soon enough. For now, he is expressing his thankfulness to God for all the church, each saint no matter their maturity or dedication.

For us, we are involved day to day with those we have been joined to through Christ and we seen the issues, (though not our own!) Be thankful for those you worship with, for those you study with, for those you serve with, for those you mourn with and for those you rejoice with.

Nothing destroys a family faster than an unthankful heart to God.

Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not …. give thanks to him….

There is an option for the believer!

Colossians 3:15b …be thankful.

After all, to be thankful is a command, and that means we can (and should) exercise a thankful spirit unto God our Savior

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.

Three men. A simple greeting to a group of people that they barely knew.

These men arrived uninvited, interrupted their lives and vanished. When I say they interrupted their lives, I mean it in only in the most drastic way.

This group of people, I assume, were peaceful, law abiding folk, seeking to know about the God of Israel, for they were adherents to the synagogue Paul and his ruffians entered. After only one message, hearts started changing. One message my friend. No extended argument or debate – the message struck hard and deep, with such force that those who resisted it resorted to violence. How pitiful.

For those who believed, they were under instant resistance, enduring much affliction, as we will read in a later verse. Two sabbaths later, Paul and his buddies are gone.

Now what? No one to guide or encourage. Very minimal teaching has been provided, when compared to other churches that had been started. Some of the churches had Paul as a teaching apostle for years!

Not the Thessalonians. Two weeks, maybe three and they had been effectively abandoned.

Abandoned by those three men, not out of want, but forced to move on. Abandoned if they had placed their faith in the apostles. Yet the church soldiered on, exhibiting faith love and hope. They had caught the message of the resurrected Savior and were moving on with it.

Paul expressed three wishes or prayers for this fledgling church.

Grace

That which is partnered with joy, delight, loving kindness, favor, bounty and benefit. For grace to be provided means the recipients are the benefactors of Another, and that is Paul’s prayer, not that they may receive it, but that they realize they have it.

Grace is a merciful kindness to those recipients, a full dose of the sweetness and gentleness of God to a needy people.

Peace

Peace is not the absence of violence. Peace is not the absence of war, although there may be a link.

Peace in the first century spoke of a wholeness of life, of a harmony within and between people and God. There can be national peace – that is no war between nations, and yet the turmoil and upheaval inside a soul can be devastating. Let us not reduce peace to a simple visual understanding of actions of violence.

Peace is a tranquil state of the soul, even in the midst of uncertainty and upheaval. This is the Thessalonians state, for they lived amongst those who erupted their city for the sake of quelling the small group from advancing. They were, in their enemies minds, worthy of destruction.

And Paul sends peace.

Grace and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, in whom it is obvious these folks followed!

Grace and peace to you my friend!

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Follow Considering the Bible on WordPress.com

Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.

A little while ago, I produced a verse by verse series in Philippians. I really enjoyed that exercise and have been wondering if I should take on another book. Well it turns out that 1 Thessalonians is the victim of my machinations, and hopefully, the thoughts produced by this fantastic book will edify and encourage the reader.

As with Philippians I am going to limit each post to one verse, and hopefully produce a short, succinct read for my friends who follow.

A little background before we dig into this letter from Paul. It is a precious letter in that it is the first of Paul’s letters to the churches he founded and directed, so we may see in this writing, many seed thoughts he develops in messages to other churches.

So a bit of background.

The Thessalonian church was birthed after the Philippian church, quickly and under very stressful circumstances.

You see, Paul would always go to the cities where there was a synagogue (with the exception of Philippi) to reason first with those who had background in the Old Testament. It was a logical place to spread the Word since it seems so obvious that the Messiah Jesus was the fulfillment of all the prophecies scattered throughout the Old Testament.

But there was resistance! The most ungodly of resistance erupted, those who hate God and despise any mention of our Lord. You may assume it was some humanists, or antichrist movement. It turns out that the resistance Paul experienced in the city of Thessalonica was of the Jews. A bit surprising when I first read that years ago.

And you may ask – How did they cause resistance? Violence. They used violence in an effort to quell the preaching of the gospel.

Acts 17:5 But the Jews were jealous, and taking some wicked men of the rabble, they formed a mob, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the crowd.

As an aside, it seems obvious that if violence is the first method of taking out a new way of thinking, those unleashing the violence obviously cannot win the debate, or provide an appeal for their adherents to remain. To be violent is a sign of weakness, a sign of the inability to provide cogent arguments against the opposing view. But this is the Jews only option, for who can argue against a man who rose from the dead?

It turns out that due to this violence, Paul and Silas moved on to the next city after only 3 Sabbaths. This could be as little as 15 days, and out of that 15 days, a church was born, and the life of Christ began spreading throughout the city!

Acts 17:7 and Jason has received them (the apostles), and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus.”

The life of Christ began, but the opposition did not stop.

Note the earthly wisdom of the Jews. They knew they had no chance in the arena of religion, so they went political, spreading the news of Jesus being the King. Nothing like some competition for the ruling class to get up in arms over it. And get up in arms they did, for though they did not restrain the apostles, they did get hold of a fellow named Jason, who provided shelter for the apostles. How dare he!

As government often does, they will threaten some judgement on a traitor, for if Jason is following another king, he is a traitor to the king before! Note the solution to this “traitorous” activity of Jason, is to fine Jason. Money. An opportunity to make (or take?) a buck. Kinda sad, for the Jews had influenced an arm of the government to exercise a desired discipline, but it turns out the government was satisfied with a couple of bucks.

Nevertheless, Paul and his helpers made a huge impact on this city, and though Paul never returned, this letter from him holds many truths believers find comfort and challenge in.

I hope during our journey through Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, we can find up to date applications for the believers life in the here and now.

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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.