As many who follow this blog may know, I have recently stumbled (providentially?) over a web page called Soteriology 101, fueled by the passionate Dr. Leighton Flowers. I have supplied a number of 60 second videos, under “Calvin’s Concern” blog posts, and have found his teaching to be challenging and refreshing.
As I was listening to Dr. Flowers, I decided to purchase his book and received it in the mail recently. As I mentioned in my first post about this book, I would be adding addtional comments, and lo and behold here I am again.
In a subsequent chapter, when Dr. Flowers is approaching the 9th chapter of Romans, which is the “hotbed of Calvinism”, he drew my attention to the following verses that express the heart of the Apostle
Romans 9:1-3
I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit—
that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.
So lets get this right.
The apostle Paul expresses his love for those who are not believers, supposedly reprobates by the teaching of an average Calvinist, and would sacrifice his own salvation for those that are not able to be saved. These he prays for are very likely the reprobate, those that have been determined to be damned for all eternity by the determinant counsel of God before all of creation.
I don’t get it. How could the servant love greater than the Master? Paul has greater love than Jesus? Something is so wrong with the way I understand the Word. I suppose I need to reconsider key Bible passages in order to have the higher knowledge of Calvinism claim my spirit.
I suppose 1 John 4:8 should be rewritten as
1 John 4:8
Anyone who does not act holy and righteous does not know God, because God is holy and righteous, (P.S. Paul is love).
My apologies to John, and to our Father in heaven, for such a suggestion.
If any who are reading this and have found Him as I am describing, please let me know. If you do not know of the Savior as the loving God of all creation, please reach out to a believer you may know. Or reach out to myself. I would be honored to assist if I am able.
Comment as you see fit. I always love hearing from you.
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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.
Considering the Bible 
The books explain the issue you brought up about the oldest manuscripts being the most reliable or not being the most reliable
Romans 9:3
Young’s literal translation has
“was wishing”
Concordant literal translation has it “wished” (past tense)
KJ3 has “was wishing”
Literal standard version has “was wishing”
Douay Rheims has “ wished” past tense
I pulled these off Bible hub
Haldanes has a decent explanation on Romans 9:3 in his commentary on Romans
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Sorry, I have to quit skim reading. The Apostle Paul did not hate them. You asked why would the Apostle Paul pray for those that God hated or were reprobates. I’m real confident you knew the answer to that before you asked. Does The apostle Paul know who the reprobates are? No Does he know who God considers reprobates? No. I assume You know the answers are No and knew the simple answers prior. I think your question seems to be a diversion from scripture. The Apostle Paul judged them at the time to be lost, not reprobates. We as Christians and are never to judge for reprobation . He prayed to The Lord for their salvation and desired God to save them. Romans 9:18 So, then, to whom He wills, He shows mercy; but to whom He wills, He hardens.
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You are aware that the Apostle Paul was once an unsaved Israelite. God saved him. He wasn’t a preconceived reprobate. Why would these Israelites in Romans 9 as individuals or Romans 10 be considered reprobates? It would be foolish to judge anyone individual a reprobate when God is the one in control.
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Please answer one additional question. Why was the Apostle Paul praying to God for the salvation of the Israelites in Romans 10:1-4 if God wasn’t in control of who is saved?
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Paul was praying for the israelites because he loved them. It seems the servant loved them more than the Master, since He only died for the elect according to your teaching.
What was Paul thinking?
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The Apostle Paul wanted them saved because he grieved for them because he judged them to be lost. Consequently, he wanted The Lord to save them. If “free will” were true, no need to pray to The Lord for their salvation
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Why would he pray for those who are hated by God?
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I’m curious, Are you able to explain to me how one person through his “free will” comes to believe your version of the Gospel of God and someone else doesn’t come to your proclaimed knowledge?Are there certain free willers created with inherent persuasions?
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It is very apparent that he didn’t hate the unsaved Israelites Why are you saying The Apostle Paul hated them? He states in scripture he was grieved because he judged them to be lost in Romans 9:3 and Romans 10:3 and prayed to the Lord for their salvation. You know that wasn’t hate He was once one of them until the Sovereign Lord in His time saved The Apostle Paul
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King James 3 literal translation
Romans 9:3
for I myself was wishing to be accursed from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to flesh,
The Apostle Paul says “was wishing” as he made it his boast in the past tense when he himself was unsaved
He prays for the salvation of the unsaved Israelites in Romans 10:1-4 because he knows God is in control of who is saved so he wasn’t referring to them as reprobates specifically only that there is an eventual group that are reprobates determined by God not him since he knows The Lord is the only one who knows who the reprobates are
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Isn’t a literal translation to be from the earliest manuscripts?
Why is it no other translations (that I know of), even the king james, does not translate it such?
Wasnt it Shakespeare that stated
“Me thinks thou protesteth too much.”
Nevertheless, if this is your belief, then may God bless you in it. He is definitely big enough to bless both of us in our lives even in our differences.
Have a great day.
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Take a look at volume 1 and volume 2 …
volume 1 “An introduction to textual criticism” “Unholy hands on the Bible” by John Burgeon & Jay P Green Sr
Volume 2 “
“An examination of six major New Versions “ Unholy hands on the Bible” by Jay P. Green Sr
By Sovereign Grace publishers
Sgpbooks.com
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Dont have those books. Are they saying all translations (even kjv) are wrong on this verse in Romans?
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