The big debate.
Free will and God’s sovereignty.
So many straw men are set up, giving both sides enemies to argue with, yet to no resolve.
The following clip may give you something to consider in relation to the debate.
The following 10 minute clip addresses some claims of a Calvinist and the response was helpful. I hope you find it informative, or challenging, depending on your position. Take a few moments to consider the question with Dr. Flowers.
Thanks for joining me in this series on Calvinism.
Years back I came out of this system of thought. I am grateful for the blessings of a loving God that has expressed His love lavishly, beyond human comprehension.
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Thanks again for coming to visit. I hope you found something of interest in this post and would appreciate a comment, to begin a discussion.
Considering the Bible 
If you or anyone else can tell me from the scripture why one person chooses your doctrine and another doesn’t, then we both have given answers from scriptures. Whereas only now, I have provided from scripture why one believes the truth and another doesn’t believe the truth.
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That is your belief
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Here we go again Will you please explain for the 3rd time how you came to the conclusion that Adam had the “free “ will not to choose to eat the fruit?
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You never answer the pertinent questions; but I’m supposed to answer an irrelevant question to skirt the focus of the fact God creates and makes you as you are and if not; then you end up with open theism God reacting to the non existent free will of man which no one can tell me why some have this inherent willingness to choose and some don’t. You can’t answer that question other than free will which is an empty term
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“Free Will” King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Free Will, The Savior
God has finally created something He can’t control and is Lord over Him
Yes, I’m being very sarcastic!
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Quite waggish!!!
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Yes, it is quite humorous and ridiculous to think God can create something outside His control and His knowledge
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Unless of course it is his will to do so
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The Will of the God of the Bible?
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Yes. If it is His will to give freedom of choice to His created beings, who am I to question that decision?
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The scriptures don’t say what you believe
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That is your belief
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I think I asked the question below You answered with “That is your belief”
“How does He declare the end from the beginning?”
He declared the end from the beginning …..Isaiah 46:10 How did He do that?
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Explain how He created light.
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That falls under omnipotence
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The Bible doesn’t say God created man with a “free” Will so I don’t have to know how to explain it something that didn’t happen
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My previous post from scripture about the objector proves that free will wasn’t even created in man It just proves it doesn’t exist from scripture
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Qqqqq
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Q……………1
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I know how he declared the end from the beginning. It is because He created everything exactly the way it is and will be from before the foundation of the world
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I asked how He created light.
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How God created light is irrelevant; since He didn’t create free will in man according to scripture. We have no need to ask how did He create free Will in man. He didn’t according to scripture.
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Didn’t ask how he created free will I asked you to explain how God created light, but you will not discuss anything beyond your narrow scope of thinking, but only seek to indoctrinate those you can intimidate.
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That isn’t true I will discuss how He created light
Genesis 1:3 and God said, Let light be! And there was light. (KJ3)
Your point I’m sure is we can’t explain it. I agree
We trust His word and we can see it; therefore, you will say it is no different if we can’t explain how He created free will; but the difference is I haven’t seen “free” will ( a will that is “free” to choose between 2 equally preferred alternatives) written in God’s word that He created man with free will and haven’t seen it visually. So, answering how he created light is irrelevant to the claim of man having a free will.
Plus, the scripture only reveals man has a will that is free from righteousness Romans 6:20 and only God is good Luke 18:19. A bad tree can only produce bad fruit. Matthew 7 So a bad tree isn’t able to produce anything good. So is natural man able to recognize the true God that is contrary to his nature? The Bible says no “None seek after God, Not One” Romans 3
Only those that have the Holy Spirit Romans 8:9 which is the good tree dwelling in them can please God. Hebrews 11:6 Not all have faith in the Gospel because not all have the spirit.
Natural man lost that spirit in the Garden of Eden because God said “ Dying you shall die” Genesis 2;17
Adam and Eve hid themselves from the True God because of their evil deed Genesis 3:8 and natural man won’t come to Him so his evil deeds will not be exposed John 3:20
God has to give the Holy Spirit through regeneration which is a Sovereign act of God John 3:8 So there is no freedom of the will
Even when He returns and makes His people He promised to save; sinless, there won’t be any free will.
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Did not adam have free will in choosing the fruit?
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After listening to preachers, teachers back pedal on this issue, I have tried to be systematic in my analysis of scripture concerning God’s nature and man’s nature and have come to the conclusion Adam and Eve did not have the freedom of the having available 2 equally preferred choices to choose from since it was in their nature or heart to desire to eat the fruit over and above trusting God’s word. Once they were confronted with outside influences separate from God, we see their true natures.
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Like I said, that is your belief.
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You asked “Did not adam have free will in choosing the fruit?”
I explained how it wasn’t in their nature to be able to have a “free” Will to choose since they had a preferential desire of the heart to eat the fruit and not trust God’s word.
Now, please explain how it was that Adam had a “free” Will to choose not to eat the fruit?
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You gave a conclusion based on premises that you have assumed in order to prop up your argument.
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You have missed the science. Did Adam desire in his heart to eat the fruit and not trust God’s word? Yes, Why? It was due to his nature
Where was his other desire over and above that desire to actually rely on what God said? It didn’t exist.
He had a heart that fell short of the glory of God.
There isn’t any false premises. Jesus would not have had that problem because He had a heart that did not fall short of the glory of God. That is the point that glorifies God, not man.
Why? Because he was given the spirit without limit. Do you see the point God is demonstrating? God the Holy Spirit is the difference not your empty concept of free will. The Holy Spirit! God said He makes vessels fitted out for destruction and vessels of mercy before prepared by Him for glory.
There is no such concept as “free” Will or freedom from God. There are wills but not free ones.
We have a nature that falls short of the glory of God and God will bring His people to glorification in the end with only a will to please God contrary to fallen man’s nature and while here through the spirit His people are given faith through that Holy Spirit to overcome the world until glorification where there is no empty concept of free will.
A bad tree cannot produce good fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. The only good tree is the Holy Spirit.
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Congratulations You diverted me once again from receiving an answer to the question I asked
“Now, please explain how it was that Adam had a “free” Will to choose not to eat the fruit?”
I do all the explaining and you divert to me with your one line questions.
I give explanations, you give none. You must think by asking me another question you are making your point.
Please answer the question because that will explain your understanding of free will so I can understand it.
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Where did science come from
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I said that as sort of a joke
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Good one
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That is your belief
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You keep saying that it is my belief; but what did the scripture say? I already pointed out the objector understood it; and instead of you coming out with the fact you are the objector you are side stepping the scripture as though it doesn’t say what it says and the objector wasn’t legitimately objecting to “Why does He find fault?” For who can resist His will? Why did you make me like this? That has to sound familiar. I keep hearing responsibility equals free Will from your videos; but the scripture says different.
All we have is scripture and the devil’s slight twist of the truth to make it appealing. God does all His desires according to scripture and man’s will does not determine to whom God will show mercy. If I went beyond what is written, please let me know
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If God was powerless and had to stand powerlessly in subjection to man’s unknown free will, then it would be ridiculous to pray to Him to convert someone.
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But we both believe God is not powerless.
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The God of the Bible knows all things because He created all things and controls all things and decreed all things according to the counsel of His Will according to purpose in order to glorify all his attributes which includes creating evil, ( He created all things in the heavens and earth and is omniscient ) making vessels fitted out for destruction to demonstrate His wrath and make His power known in order to make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy that He before prepared for glory.
All of God’s desires are fulfilled because no one else is in control because He is God. The other god is a god who cannot save because
God made sure man had the freedom to choose whether to believe or not to believe because man thinks he can’t be responsible to god otherwise; which is an empty concept because in order to make a choice you must have a preference and no one knows how anyone can choose without a prior nature that has a preference that will produce one decision or the other. All we can derive from this is one man is inherently special and another isn’t and yet God was not responsible for this confusing scenario, man is.
The Bible says you cannot receive anything except that which is given from above; but we don’t have pay attention to that verse in this scenario of who god is.
This concept of a universal offer of salvation that must make man the difference in who is saved or not saved forces and makes not the work of Christ alone the only difference in salvation which means man is capable of knowing good and evil and man has a choice like the serpent said he would because he knows good and evil and he is like God and doesn’t need God in this scenario; but yet, no one can answer why one person makes a non preferential (Free Will) decision and another doesn’t. In this scenario, Christ may have died for no one since god turned over to man this unpredictable freedom and power.
The Biblical God knows before creation the end from the beginning because He decreed all thoughts, words, deeds and all things before time according to the counsel of His Will.
This God is the powerful one. The other god man has the power over because God gave it to him which means God can’t save a person if He desires to and change one who is unwilling because man would not be responsible in man’s eyes if God did interfere with his decision.
He believes in a God who cannot save like Isaiah said. This God does not have complete omnipotent power because he relinquished it to man which makes man god in this case.
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Is power and control synonomous to you?
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When you bring this question up from time to time, it makes me wonder if you actually think God doesn’t know anything about what he created. Are we individuals that spontaneously combusted and God is maneuvering according to the open theism you are hiding.
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Will you (can you) answer the question?
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Power not exercised is worthless
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Actually power not exercised through control is worthless
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It is irrelevant to the issue
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Nice dodge.
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Everything is irrelevant other than your talking points. I don’t understand why I try to converse with you.
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Carl all you are doing comparatively is exalting man just like the offering by the serpent in Genesis 2 and 3
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“Talking points” scripture I hope is the talking point and not free will which is a talking point not found in scripture. God creates and has to know exactly what he created otherwise he could never fulfill any one of His promises.
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That is your belief.
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It is absolutely impossible for the omniscient God of the Bible to create anything outside His control and knowledge. It is a delusion brought on by the serpent in the Garden of Eden to think otherwise.
His creative plan of all thoughts, words and actions was set in stone prior to creation; to think otherwise will and would inevitably lead to open theism.
The objector in Romans 9:20 was a advocate of free will and objected to what was being said because of his belief of free will.
He understood what The Apostle Paul under inspiration was saying. He understood God was unconditionally making vessels fitted out for destruction in order that He make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy which HE prepared for glory. Romans 9:19-23.
Otherwise he would have never complained and said “ Who can resist His will? and “ Why did you make me like this? That is not a supportive statement for Free Will and proves without a doubt, the opposite.
God does not create unknowns …. A God that created something unknown to Him and that He is not in control of is not the God of the Bible.
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That is your belief. Thanks for sharing.
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He declared the end from the beginning …..Isaiah 46:10
How did He do that?
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